Re: Jewishes Snippers of Palestine
- From: "Tom Potter" <tdp@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:56:37 -0700
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:9OGxa$AmrRSCFwVJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> In message <3aikhlF694k8sU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tom Potter
> <tdp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >
> >"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> >news:Gm5$gkUTWsQCFwx5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> In message <3afq7cF679f5fU2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tom Potter
> >> <tdp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >>>
> >>>"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> >>>news:iq42zYKUdXQCFwlR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> In message <3ad324F60he6eU3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tom Potter
> >>>> <tdp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:$ssRyxcFqEQCFw2v@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> In message <3aat6cF67pjfvU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tom Potter
> >>>>>> <tdp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:Ct0OyzOl3BQCFwBc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> In message <3aafu4F68lm6qU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tom Potter
> >>>>>>>> <tdp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>It is interesting to see that Richard Herring
> >>>>>>>>>does not know that "Magna Carta" is often spelled "Magna Carte",
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Often"?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Google "magna carte" : about 584 entries.
> >>>>>>>> Google "magna carta": about 512, 000 entries.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What, no comment?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>and it is even more interesting to see that Richard Herring
> >>>>>>>>>tries to convey the impression that a supposed spelling error
> >>>>>>>>>negates an argument.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No, Potter's incomprehension needs no help to do that.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I suspect that what has Richard Herring all bent out of shape,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Illiterate Tom "Magna Carte" Potter's remote viewer is "all bent
out
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> shape", too.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I can't understand why it bothers Richard Herring so much to see
> >>>>>>>historical facts posted in a news group.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Post some, and then we'll see.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A couple of the articles from the Magna Cart<a>
> >>>>>are listed below. Do you accept that these are "historical facts"?
> >>>>
> >>>> The existence of the original Latin articles is a fact. Their absence
> >>>> from
> >>>> all later revisions of the charter is also a fact. The cited
> >>>> translations
> >>>> into English are certainly not "historical facts".
> >>>
> >>>Richard,
> >>>why don't you post your favorite English rendering of the
> >>>particular Magna Carta articles that I posted,
> >>>and lets see how they differ from the one I posted.
> >>>
> >> As usual, Potter misses the point. Translations are fine, provided you
> >> remember that's all they are: traduttore traditore. If you want
> >> "historical fact", you go back to the source text:
> >>
> >> Si quis mutuo ceperit aliquid a Judeis, plus vel minus, et moriatur
> >> antequam debitum illud solvatur, debitum non usuret quamdiu heres
> >> fuerit infra etatem, de quocumque teneat; et si debitum illud
> >> inciderit in manus nostras, nos non capiemus nisi catallum contentum
> >> in carta.
> >>
> >> Et si quis moriatur, et debitum debeat Judeis, uxor ejus habeat dotem
> >> suam, et nichil reddat de debito illo, et si liberi ipsius defuncti
> >> qui fuerint infra etatem remanserint, provideantur eis necessaria
> >> secundum tenementum quod fuerit defuncti et de residuo solvatur
> >> debitum, salvo servicio dominorum; simili modo fiat de debitis que
> >> debentur aliis quaim Judeis.
> >>
> >> But if you want to know what a historical fact _means_, you have to
> >> understand the historical context. I've seen no evidence that Potter
has
> >> any understanding whatsoever of the relationship between the king and
> >> the Jews in early 13th-century England.
> >
> >I think what Richard Herring is saying is:
>
> What Potter "thinks" is, as usual, wrong.
>
> >that if he can't find a translation he likes,
> >then he asserts that the facts cannot be translated,
> >
> >but if the facts can be accurately translated,
> >then the facts do not account for the "historical context",
> >
> >and it the facts and the "historical context" can be accurately
translated,
> >then the people involved were evil (Like the German people and the
Romans)
> >controlled by the Pope (Like the Spanish and the French)
> >prejudice (Like the creators of the Magna Carta and the United Nations),
> >religious fanatics (Like Martin Luther and Muslims)
> >or plain stupid, crazy or jealous (Like the rest of us.)
>
> Please provide an English translation. The above makes no sense.
> >
> >I challenge Richard Herring to post ANY English translation he likes
> >of the Magna Carta, and to explain the articles in question.
> >
> There would be no point. Potter is no more capable of understanding them
> in English than he is in Latin.
I repeat:
"I challenge Richard Herring to post ANY English translation<s> he likes
of the Magna Carta, and to explain the articles in question."
Then we will see who "understands understanding them in English".
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
.
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