Re: High strength fibers for high pressure tubes.

Mitchell Jones <mjones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:mjones-62105F.01420327042005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

> In article <Xns9644D4EEDCBWQAHBGMXSZHVspammote@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> bz <bz+sp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Mitchell Jones <mjones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in news:mjones-
>> 740551.20301826042005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
>>
.....
>
> ***{Treating fishing grounds as a commons has been the prevalent system
> for thousands of years. In spite of that, the fishing grounds are for
> the most part not yet barren. Given that fact, it seems a bit odd to
> claim that, if we were to implement the restraints of a private property
> system, everything would suddenly go straight to hell. That's like
> saying that a building is on fire but you shouldn't turn in an alarm,
> because as soon as the fire trucks arrive, the place will instantly burn
> to a crisp! --MJ}***

I am saying that switching to private ownership of the commons isn't
magically going to change the direction we are going.

It won't make things worse, it won't make them better.

Education can make things better and it doesn't require a change in the
system. It just requires educating people.

Educate them and they will change the system.


>
>> The theory is
>> nice, but we don't have time for it to work.
>
> ***{Yup: the guy has ingested poison, but we shouldn't give him the
> antidote, because we don't have time for it to work! --MJ}***

Get him to vomit up the poison.

>
>> We also have several centuries
>> of international law to overcome. That will be the EASY part. Getting
>> people to act with good sense is the hard part.
>
> ***{Under capitalism, owners act with good sense, or else they go broke
> and are replaced by someone with the sense they lacked. The hard part is
> restoring the capitalistic system, in a world that has become quite
> literally insane, where politics and economics are concerned. The
> chances of it happening, I'm afraid, are essentially zero. The world
> will cling to its false political and economic beliefs just as the
> ancient Romans clung to theirs, until the system collapses, and a new
> dark age begins. We may not like that state of affairs, but there isn't
> a damn thing you, or I, or anyone can do to stop it. It's a freight
> train coming straight at us, and we are chained to the tracks. And
> that's all there is to that story. --MJ}***

We can EACH work to educate everyone we can. It MIGHT make a difference.

>
>> When there is a riot going on, no one cares about property rights.
>>
>> You expect private property to be a magic wand, solving all problems. I
>> am trying to point out that it won't work that way fast enough.
>>
>> I wish you were right. Wishes don't do it however.
>
> ***{It would work if it were implemented. It will not, however, be
> implemented, because people are ego involved with their beliefs. They
> will not change their minds when it becomes clear that the strongest
> arguments lie with the other side. Instead, they insist on totally
> conclusive proof. They won't believe the horse they are riding is dying
> until he is dead, and their attitude toward their political beliefs is
> the same: they will not accept that the present system is unsustainable
> until it collapses. And, of course, by then it is too late to matter.
> --MJ}***

I fear you are right.

>
>> I do have a magic solution that WILL work FASTER than yours, IF we can
>> do it, and we only have a few years opportunity left.
>> Move industry into space.
>
> ***{By means of some gigantic government boondoggle, I suppose. Raise
> taxes enormously, give the money to NASA, and collapse the economy? Get
> the money by simply printing it up, give it to NASA, and watch the
> resulting hyperinflation collapse the economy? If you mean anything like
> that, I'm against it.
>

That is not what I mean.

I mean we all realize what must be done and decide to do it.

> On the other hand, if you mean get the goddamned government out of the
> way, abolish all government regulation of industry, science, and
> technology, including especially the regulation of nuclear power, shut
> off all public funding of "education," end all government grants to
> science, industry, and technology, then I'd be for that in a really big
> way. Do that, and we'll have colonies on the Moon, Mars, and the
> asteroid belt in 20 years. Do that, and the life expectancy of the
> average newborn will be 200 years by 2050.

YES.

>
> Of course, it ain't gonna happen. People are too stupid to permit it to
> happen.

I fear you are right.

>> Mine the asteroids. Eliminate an economy based on
>> lack of things.
>
> ***{Meaning what? There are no limits to human wants.

The only limited resource will be the human mind.

> That's simply a
> fact. On the other hand, there are limits to what a given person can
> have, imposed by reality.

If you want a solid gold car (though why you would want it is anyones
guess, you could have it). Or one carved from a single syntetic diamond.

> Result: our wants are always going to exceed
> what we can have

I will tell you the secret of true happiness:

Learn to want what you have, as much as you used to want it before you had
it.

.....
>
>> Clean-up the earth and restore it as a park.
>
> ***{Meaning bulldoze everyone's houses, destroy all their property,
> everywhere on Earth? Run them out into space, even if they don't want to
> go? Kill them if they insist on remaining on Earth? Surely you jest.
> --MJ}***

Who said anything about FORCING anyone?

If I had a nice place to live in L3 or L5, I would enjoy restoring my
current properties in La and Wy to pristine condition. It would be a good
hobby. I could watch my box turtles roam my property without my house in
their way.

>
>> Of course, it probably won't happen.
>
> ***{Hopefully not.


> I prefer capitalism,

So do I.

> despite the fact that it does
> not just benefit me and the people I like, but also the people I do not
> like. I would prefer a more evolved world, in which the average person
> was of much higher quality than the present norm, but getting there by
> means of mass murder does not set well with me. Open up space to
> colonization, and the worthwhile people would leave Earth in droves,
> just as they left Europe after the discovery of the New World. The
> conformists, losers, and scum, however, would mostly remain behind.
> Given that state of affairs, the only way to turn Earth into a park
> would be to kill them all. --MJ}***
>
>> If it doesn't happen in the next 50
>> years, it will never happen because we will have burned up hundreds of
>> millions of years worth of stored solar energy and done it in a couple
>> of hundred years.
>
> ***{Incorrect. All the oxygen in the atmosphere was released by
> photosynthesis. The formula for photosynthesis is 6CO2 + 6H2O + solar
> energy --> C6H12O6 + 6O2. I suggest that you do the following: (a)
> compute the amount of O2 in the atmosphere, (b) assume all of it was
> produced in accordance with the above equation, (c) compute the amount
> of carbon that was freed up when that O2 was released, and (d) compare
> to the total amount of carbon used as fuel since the industrial
> revolution began. If you do that, you will find that enough carbon
> remains in the Earth to support more than 100,000 years of usage at
> current rates of consumption.

All the carbon is not in useable form. In fact, most of it is not. Calcium
carbonate does not burn very well. There are many other carbonate from
which we can not extract energy.

> Bottom line: we haven't even scratched the
> surface, insofar as the utilization of stored solar energy is concerned.
> That's not to say we don't face a crisis; but the crisis is one of
> access, as determined by "green" (meaning red) politics, rather than one
> of supply. --MJ}***
>





--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

bz+sp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
.

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