Re: Wave as wave, particle as particle
- From: "zhayne" <zhayne_dream@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 3 May 2005 04:24:18 -0700
Bjorn,
This thread is to independently scrutinize how far
Yoonatom can be stretched and still explain the data
without severe violations that can't be fixed by slight
alternative submodels addition. You see. His model is one
of the few I came across wherein there is no quantizing of
energy, no de_broglie standing waves principles forming
the orbitals configurations, no schrodinger
probabilistic interpretations yet can *allegedly* explain
all the spectrums of the hydrogen atom. The following is
Newedana explanations of it. The reason I kept discussing
Yoon is because I can't buy his expensive $180 book so I
just want to fish for information from those who read
it so we can determine how silly or ingenious his model
is. I'll continue after the following descriptions by
Newedana on Yoon atomic dynamics:
"One has to abandon the old yardstic used in QM theory in order to
understand Yoon's new science. Yoon's orbital electron ring does
not change its radius sensitibley depending on its energy uptake,
but changes only its precessing frequency at a given fixed
radius. However, if the energy capacity of old orbital electron
ring is in lack of accepting futher radiation energy, it shrinks
its radius by interger multiple ratio, and thickens its ring to
be stiffer and stiffer to have a higher energy capacity. Thus it
can radiate shorter and shorter wavelength of radiation as it
shrinks its radius, and eventually even gammer rays. In the case
of hydrogen spectrum it is quite certain to shrink in 6 steps,
and every step it builds up a set of spectrum including its
series limit, such as Humpry, Pfrond, Brakett, Ritz-Paschen,
Balmer, and finally Lyman series. The lowest energy level you
questioned is to have radius of electron ring possible to emit
humprey series, and finally stoping its precessional oscillation
at 0 kelvin. The precessing amplitude of electron ring represents
heat energy of materials in his book. In the case of emitting
x-rays, this electron ring has to shrink to be 1/36 of Lyman's.
If you see Dr. yoon's text you will find how beautifully the
hydrogen spectra are explained with a reasonable new equation of
estimating their wavelengths, together with a new equation
estimating energy level of hydrogen's electron ring emitting its
spectrum. The energy level of hydrogen's electron ring increases
in inversely proportional to 4 powers of its radius. He never
quantizes the radiation energy in explaining the hydrogen
spectra, which was thought to be impossible up to now."
Back to zhayne.
Well. The above is an interesting claim, what remains to be
seen is if it can explain all the known data and other extra
data you never knew existed.
About a hundred years ago. When Bohr was fiddling with energy
levels and electron jumps in between to explain absorption
and emission of photons and later de_broglie giving the
matter wave idea to finalize the concept of the
standing wave (or wave nature of the particle) forming
the orbitals and later schroedinger giving the equations
to determine its dynamics and all. What if they are just
coincidental findings especially how the locations matched.
Right now we just accept the schroedinger equations but
what if we are deceived and there is another alternative
model that can explain the same data and others you never
knew existed (which I do). Therefore scrutinizing alternative
models is a necessity. Quantum Mechanics is very elegant.
In fact I so love it. But what if it's just a big coincidence
and things are not what they seem. Then how can you build
higher model over something that is not real.
Of course QM can be real and be so fixed in place that
any higher model must use it as subset without replacing
it. But until we can be certain we are not being deceived
and there is no alternative models that can give the same
data. Then we must remain open minded.
Anyway. I like your comment that neutron has absolutely
zero charge and Dr. Yoon fabricating it to have small
charge to explain its wave nature. This is a major blow
and I'm adding the points of conflicts. And if they are
just so many and no modification or adding of hypothesis
such as connecting it to a possible Aether can solve it.
Then Dr. Yoon is finished. But until we are certain.
We must give him a chance.
zhayne
Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote:
> zhayne wrote:
> > One can postulate wave as wave, particle as particle by
> > modifying some electron dynamics in the atoms.
>
> And what on earth is this supposed to mean?
>
>
> > Light travel as waves. Electron is particle yet when it moves,
> > it can disturb some medium which happens to be how light
> > is produced.
>
> Feel free to provide evidence for these assertions.
>
>
> > This means the electron orbitals in the atom can be ruled
> > by other mechanism and not the de-broglie schrodinger standing
> > wave thing.
>
> Feel free to show your calculations on this.
>
>
> > Anyone can enumerate all the alternative atomic models and
> > dynamics that don't use debroglie schrodinger concept yet
> > compatible with all the data?
>
> Zero.
>
>
>
> > Let's try to find other ways to describe the electrons
> > without the probabilistic behavior which doesn't make
> > logical sense since the electron doesn't just teleport
> > in space like magic.
>
> Err, the probabilistic description has nothing at all to
> do with the electron teleporting around. So what has the
> second part of the sentence to do with the first?
>
>
> > Let's find all possible alternative. If there is none
> > and categorically none. Then let's embrace QM and treat
> > it's weirdness as part of nature. But until we can prove
> > otherwise, we must dig for alternative models. Remember
> > that the most simple explanation is the most likely.
>
> This is you again, Qion/Landle/Cinquirer/etc., right?
>
>
> > Back to wave and particle as separate. How do you explain
> > the double slit expe, comptons scattering, photoelectric
> > effect. With some changes in electron dynamics. One can
> > state that as you increase the frequency.
>
> Frequency of what?
>
>
> > The elecron acquire more energy
>
> How?
>
>
> > and gets ejected.
>
> From what?
>
>
> > In the double slit.
> > One can say that as the electron move, it disturbs the
> > medium which sets up waves that interfere at the slits.
>
> Feel free to explain
> 1) what medium that should be
> 2) how exactly the electron produces these waves
> 3) how you get a diffraction pattern made by the *electrons*
> *themselves* on the detector screen if only the waves produced
> by the electrons interfere
>
> BTW: interference does not happen "at" the slits, but behind
> them. *Please* try to get a *minimal* education instead of
> constantly talking about things you know next to nothing about.
>
>
> > In pure double slit expe using lights. I still don't
> > understand how a single hit can occur in the phosphur
> > screen if light is just wave.
>
> Simple: it isn't just a wave.
>
>
> > But a genius called RP
> > has managed to explain it although in a very vague manner.
>
> If it's very vague, it's not an explanation.
>
>
> > If you are reading this RP. Do you really believe that
> > light is just wave and there is no photons. If so, how
> > does the phosphur screen only register one hit from all
> > the waves travelling to it?? Other geniuses are free to
> > answer this too.
>
> And you are free to f*ck off, get an education, and stop
> posting such silly questions here which you could answer
> on your own if you invested some work.
>
>
> Bye,
> Bjoern
.
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