Re: Are There Any Actual Physicists/Scientists Here?

In article <3o8lf1hmng72e8umj0c6mil197drv7elfo@xxxxxxx>,
Paul Stowe <ps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:25:05 +0000 (UTC), glhansen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>(Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:

>>>> In a sense that's more about protecting people than science.
>>>
>>> From what? Beliefs, ideas?
>>
>> From themselves or those in their care dying of curable diseases.
>
> I alway shudder when I see the mentality of "we must protect
> people from themselves". The reason should be obvious. There
> is an explicit they're too stupid to decide and I'm not in
> there!

They make decisions based on the information they have available. And
charlatans are not shy about making their own brand of information
available. Should scientists remain silent and let people base decisions
on information that is just plain wrong?

>
>> From tax dollars spent on initiatives that do more harm than
>> good.
>
> Ah, politics...

And that affects people. It would be better of policies were based on
accurate information. They might then choose to ignore that information
(it happens), but it would be better if they're aware of it in the first
place.

>
>> From the health hazards of certain foods and vices that people
>> can't choose to do something about if they don't have the
>> information.
>
> Ah this smacks of wanting to play God.

Publicly distributing information, playing God, call it what you like.

>
>> From people that not only choose to decide that God created the
>> Earth in six days, but that every school kid in the country
>> should be taught so.
>
> Pure politics, again. Science cannot be harmed by promoting
> fantasies. We do live in a demon haunted world...

Not really pure politics. "Equal time" was cast down because politicians
became convinced that evolution is science while creationism isn't. If
scientists hadn't tried to play politics your kids would be learning
someone else's religion in science class.

Look into biology in the Soviet Union. Darwinism was not politically
correct. A state-sponsored fantasy did nothing good for Soviet science.

>> People buy magnets because they're told that they do everything
>> from curing arthritis to improving gas mileage. That's their own
>> choice, but they might make a different choice if someone reputable
>> told them it doesn't work.
>
> It's the Bell Curve, can't happen. There will always be 'suckers'.
> That was why the war on poverty was doomed to failure from the
> start. Accept it & move on.

The peak can be shifted.

When people are actively promoting something that's just plain wrong, or
even harmful, why should we just accept it and move on? Why is it the
duty of scientists to remain silent while charlatans can fill the
airwaves?

>
>>>> And, perhaps, scientific funding.
>>>
>>> Ah, the bottom line, "follow the money"... True science is NEVER!
>>> about money.
>>
>> That's a fine opinion from someone that can go to the library and
>> get other people's research for free. True science is NEVER! about
>> the money, except for the true science that wouldn't have been done
>> without the money.
>
> Funny, it was very much a gentleman's profession until ~1940.

There were professional scientists before the 1940's. And we have truly
good science today that the gentlemen could never have afforded.

>
>> I'll bet you can think of a lot of examples. We all can. But, in
>> contrast to the magnet peddlers, that money was solicited by
>> explaining the virtues of the true science to people that care about
>> true science (e.g. taxpayers that are willing to fund a space
>> telescope), and not by spreading falsehoods and fraudulent promises.
>
> The phrase, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, some
> of the people ALL of the time, but you can't fool all of the people
> all of the time". But, science & its method is self correcting and
> is not threaten by ideas, period.

With the miracles of politics, pseudo-science can be used where science
should have been used.


--
"Yes, I revere you much, honored ones, and wish to fart in response." --
Aristophanes, Clouds
.

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