Re: Why can't this be done?


Mike wrote:
> mike3 wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > Why can't you transform elements like iron into elements like gold for
> > "free", ie. without a lot of energy?
> >
> > What I thought was this: Elements heavier than iron are at a lower
> > binding energy per nucleon (hence higher potential energy per nucleon)
> > than iron. So if you could, for example, convert iron (low energy) into
> > gold (high energy) without expending the necessary energy,
>
> Did you understand what Klazmon was trying to tell you? The "burning"
> of elements to get to iron-56 releases energy. To get beyond iron you
> need to add energy.
>
> During a supernova explosion the temperature goes way up and you get a
> neutron bombardment on the order of 10**22 neutrons per square
> centimeter per second. The nuclei capture some of these neutrons. But
> nuclei with excess neutrons are unstable. In such a nucleus, a neutron
> will decay into a proton. The atomic number goes up and you get a new
> element. This cycle can repeat and the nucleus marches up the periodic
> table. This is the so called R-process (R is for rapid). Shortly (a few
> seconds) after it is formed the new nucleus is ejected from the
> supernova (there is a bounce following the collapse); the new nucleus
> decays and you are left with a stable isotope.
>
> Iron has the largest binding energy; the energy needed to disassemble a
> nucleus into its component protons and neutrons. To determine the
> nuclear binding energy you first compute the difference between the
> mass of a nucleus and the sum of the mass of its neutrons and protons.
> You use E = mc² where m is this mass difference to compute the binding
> energy of any nucleus. Up to iron, you release energy when you fuse
> elements. After iron, you have to supply energy for fusion to occur. On
> the flip side, when you split uranium or plutonium, you get that energy
> back. In a nuclear reactor, you are getting back energy that was put
> there by a supernova.
>

Just what I was saying! If you could do it for "free", then you could
fission it back down, and you'd suddenly have lots of free energy!
You'd have just made a perpetual motion machine! Since that is
obviously impossible, you just can't do it!


> --Mike Jr.
>
> > then you
> > could turn the gold back into iron, which would by necessity release
> > energy -- and since you didn't expend any to get it, you just got "free
> > energy" -- a perpetual motion machine!!! Since this is obviously
> > absurd, you can't do it for "free".
> >
> > Is that correct?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Last global warming post - ever.
    ... To fuse Iron into higher elements, or even denser elements into still ... you need the energy of an exploding sun. ... USED to exist, and have since exploded, creating heavier elements. ... I see nothing in your links that indicates that fusion is ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: Helium fission?
    ... nucleus - you get a lot of energetic fission fragments. ... I guess most of the energy would escape as ... Muons don't interact via the strong nuclear force, ... Even the disintegration of one iron nucleus is not going to have much ...
    (rec.arts.sf.science)
  • Re: Driving LEDs with a battery pack
    ... It provides the shorter path, the one taking less energy, so yes. ... So the iron just presents a very low energy path for the field, ... These easy paths are easy, though, because the atoms provide free ... And if there are electrons available in the ...
    (sci.electronics.basics)
  • Re: High speed collisions
    ... A quick c++ implementation of the Bethe equations for nuclear stopping ... power (and a quick lookup of the average ionization energy of iron, ... simple by looking at energy deposition from electronic stopping. ... between the path of a target nucleus and a nucleus in the impactor ...
    (rec.arts.sf.science)
  • Re: magnetism question
    ... > the flux leakes. ... > the iron is due to the iron becoming magnetized -- that's fine, ... magnet's energy is accounted for. ... magnet in air. ...
    (sci.physics)