Re: Is Bohm Hidden Variables discredited or not? How?


Hi, Potte,


> EPR logic is simply that there is value before the separation much
> like coins put in envelope, what faces the front of the envelope
> is already there. Einstein tried to debunk QM. But what Aspect
> and others found out is that before measurement there is
> no value as they are in superposition. Einstein doesn't
> agree this is so because it has to travel
> superluminally. Bohr answer is just treat it as one system.
> Remember the Copenhagen Interpretation put the causal
> mechanism under the rag. So is there a non-local signal
> non-photonic so non-relativity incompatible or are they
> for all intent and purposes instantenous.


Quantum mechanics is nonlocal. I can't say whether there is a signal.


> > > But there is another hidden variable called
> > > "non-local" hidden variable.
> > This does not make much sense. Do you understand your own question?
>
> Yes. EPR is local hidden varible where the spins are already
> determined before they are sent. In "non-local" hidden
> variable. It is possible there is no value before measurement.
> However upon measurement, a non-local communication takes
> place where it convey the status of the spin.


I always thought EPR was a paper proposing an experiment. Aspect
performed the experiment, and the result was in accordance with the
predictions of QM and disagreed with Einstein's conception of reality.
Since then, various people have tried relaxing Einstein's requirements
one by one to see if they can come up with a realistic theory. Bohm's
attempt is one of the most successful.


> > The link?
> non-photonic non-relativitic incompatible signal that
> mediate the photon entanglement.


In QM there is no signal mediating the photon entanglement. In the dBB
theory there is no signal mediating the entanglement. At least, there
is not a signal in the sense that I understand signals. In both cases
the entanglement between 3D points P and Q comes about because there
are points of the Fock space of the state vector associated
simultaneously with P and Q. Is there a theory in which something
moves between P and Q, possibly at more than the speed of light?


> This is assuming it
> is not instantaneous. If it is instantaneous. Space
> must be illusion.


Why?


> What maintains the illusions. Why
> didn't it appear to us as illusion.


Because it isn't an illusion?


> I'll dig up the reference where they mention that quantum
> potential can be dislocated in the double slit experiment.


Please.


> Anyway. How do you understand Bohm Hidden Variables.


As additional structure tacked on to the Schroedinger wave equation.


> Are the entangled photons in
> superposition with no values before measurement.


I don't know what that means. "Superposition" refers to states that are
not eigenstates. I suspect that the Aspect experiment is not an
eigenstate at the most important stage of the proceedings.


> Is the communication non-local or
> instantanous?


Yes.


> What do you think Bohm say about it? Let's
> be clear about this first.


In the Bohm theory, the communication between points P and Q is exactly
the same as the communication between P and Q in the Schroedinger wave
equation. The Bohm theory is in fact the Schroedinger theory plus some
extra structure. The extra structure, the point particles, do exactly
what the wavefunction tells them. They do not influence the
wavefunction in any way and so cannot be considered to communicate. It
is the wavefunction that "communicates", if that is the right word, and
it communicates because it is an element of Fock space, and has
components which belong both to P and to Q. If you like, Fock space is
full of uncountably many "tunnels", between points possibly lightyears
apart.

Don't blame me, I only live here in this universe. It wasn't me what
done it, honest, Guv.

Cheers,

Zigoteau.

.

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