Re: Fraud in Experimental and Theoretical Science

Spaceman wrote:
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1138991744.195449.38950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| And what makes you think that the Earth makes a better Base than, say,
| one of the oviberts. It is your opinion that the perspective that
| involves the biggest object being the one at rest is the one that is
| more "real"? What on earth gave you that idea?

To get any measurement to be used by Earth's people,
you need to use Earth based measurements.

Well, gee, if we send a measuring instrument to Saturn, I guess we're
hosed.

so using Earth, is in fact giving it a standard.
without using Earth standards.
you are lost with measurements that have no standard
to be based upon.

In short,
If you don't have a mile to compare it to.
how do you know it went a mile at all?
.

| You are extending the motion into arcs and looking at the motion at
| different parts of the arc. You're right, that's a game. Mine is not.
| I'm looking at the planes shortly after takeoff, from three different
| frames of reference. Which one is "real"?

You are simply playing the reality game that relativity is so
well used for.
What real are you looking for?

I dunno, you tell me. I keep telling you what shows up in measurements
done by different observers and you keep saying none of those are the
"reality", that that's just an artifact of some veil that the FoR
throws over it. So what IS the reality, independent of the FoR?

Are you looking for the real difference in speed?
The real difference in length?
Or the real joke relativity can make about things
having multiple realities.

| Exactly! We come to agreement!
| The "reality" is the relative speed only! There is no "reality" in
| absolute speed, because we can't find a reliable "Base" to assert such
| absolute speed.

Actually no,
That relative speed is also an absolute speed between the 2 objects.
so you do have an absolute, it is merely relative.

The above line is worth recording in posterity somewhere, right next to
the Yogi Berra archive.


| You're right. We haven't gotten there yet. Next post, we'll get a
| little closer.

It is crazy you need to go through all this to begin with.
Please spare us all the diversions and stick with the
experiment.
We can always speak about the diversions after you provide your
physical proof of length contraction.

OK, we'll move on then.

So the folks looking at the results of the 941 camera (simultaneous
yellow flashes, nonsimultaneous blue flashes) and are wondering how the
445 camera can record something completely different (simultaneous blue
flashes, nonsimultaneous yellow flashes). They know that the speed of
light as measured on the 941 is the same in both directions (remeasured
and checked) and the distance from the yellow strikes to the 941 camera
is the same (L1) for both strikes. So there's no reason to think the
strikes were not simultaneous. So what's going on with the 445 camera?

Of course! The 445 camera is *moving* relative to the 941. So when the
yellowish bolts struck and the light started heading toward the middle,
the 445 camera was headed *toward* one of those strikes and *away* from
the other. The light coming head-on toward the 445 camera doesn't have
to travel the whole distance L1, because the ovibert covered some of
that ground. And the light from the other bolt that was chasing down
the camera had to go a little extra distance and so took a little more
time. So it's no wonder that the light from the bolt in front of the
445 camera arrived at a different time than the light from the bolt
behind the 445 camera. This explains why the 445 camera doesn't see the
yellowish bolts as simultaneous when the 941 camera did.

Though we have the answer we're looking for, we can do a little bit of
playing to see how much time difference there is as seen by the 445
camera.
Let's call the time the front bolt's light takes to reach the 445
camera t1, and the time the light from the back bolt to reach the 445
camera to be t2, and we know already that t2 > t1.
In time t1, the light from the bolt covers distance c*t1, the ovibert
covers distance v*t1, and we know c*t1 + v*t1 = L1. A little algebra
and we know t1 = L1/(c+v)
In time t2, the camera has moved away from the bolt a distance v*t2,
and the light has to cover L1 plus this extra distance to catch up with
it, so c*t2 = v*t2 + L. A little algebra and we know t2 = L1/(c-v).
Sure enough, (c-v) is always smaller than (c+v) so t2 > t1 as we
thought. The time difference as seen by the 445 camera is t2-t1 = L1*
[1/(c-v) - 1/(c+v)] = 2v*L1*[1/(c^2 - v^2)] =
(2v/c^2)*L1*[1/(1-v^2/c^2]. I see a recurring v/c in that expression,
so I'll neaten it up by calling v/c something simpler, just plain B,
and then this becomes
t2-t1 = (2B*L1/c)[1/(1-B^2)]. Since we know all the numbers B, L1, and
c, we can check to see if this jibes with the measured time difference
between the yellowish strikes on the 445 camera. Voila, it does.

OK so far?

PD

.

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