Re: Consistancy of the speed of light.


"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:kpzFf.7161$1e5.154111@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| You're being foolish again, James. The speeds of
| these things are such that no deviations from
| a straight line path will occur. These things
| aren't floating down through honey you know.
| They're moving like a bullet through a vacuum.

No,
they are moving like a bunch of electrons through electrons and atoms
and molecules etc..
They might be fast, but they are not immune to what they are traveling
through and if they act anything like light, they should also be curving a
bit
from gravity.

| Too fast and too heavy to deviate. Gravity acts on them
| for a few tens of microseconds while they descend. Muons
| have no stong interaction properties and are too massive
| to be significantly deflected by atomic electric fields
| that they encounter.

Who is saying atomic electric fields?
I am talking about the Earths static field.
there are tons of electrons out there that have no
atomic connections.
and still you are not following one specific one
so you can not just say such without actual physical
proof if you wish to call such "physical" proof.



| What pressure can a muon feel? It's much smaller
| than any atom. As far as it's concerned, *everywhere*
| is a vacuum. Or are you going to invoke some
| mytical properties here?

Oh, ya,
I forgot, you think pressure does not occur in small stuff
because we can't measure it.
fine, I will give ya that one.
:)


| As I said, there's no need. We know where they are
| generated (at about 9000m altitude) and that they
| have specific decay rates, interaction cross sections,
| and so forth. We know how much energy they have when
| they do make it to ground level (that is, we know their
| velocities).

There is a need to do such to call it physical proof.
To say one muon does such and such and it is proven
because we see this at start and this at end, (without
following it through the entire path it takes)
is not physical proof.
It is merely abstract proof.


| They have a rest frame decay halflife of about 1.4
| microseconds. Travel time according to our clocks
| for something moving at the speed they're measured
| to have from the height they're made is on the order
| of about 40 microseconds. That's about 28 times the
| rest frame half-life.

Yup, higher up they can spin more freely and last longer.
no biggie still.

| > | What can accelerate the muon after it's created?
| >
| > What can accelerate electrons after they are lost?
|
| You don't seem to appreciate the significance of the
| great mass and velocity these things have.

You don't seem to think about masses it is traveling through.
207 electrons is all it would have to hit to change it's course.
(even a car that wieghs a ton at any speed
can be influenced by 2000 one lb hits)


| > | Interaction cross section is low, mean free path
| > | is large, gravity will have negligible effect.
| > | We know the speed when we detect them.
| >
| > You know the speed how?
| > You detected it fly by, and timed the exact same muon
| > a little bit further in it's path?
|
| We know the rest mass of the muon and we measure the
| kinetic energy deposited when they hit the detector.
| Simple math from there.

Ok,
but that still does not tell the speed it may be doing
up higher.
the end result does not always prove the path it took
nor the speed before such.
Basically, you do have some abstract proof of what you say.
But you sure do not have physical proof of the entire
life of such muons.
So, you can play with "time dilation muons" and abstract
proof all you want,
I will wait for actual physical proof before I jump to that faith
you have achieved..
:)


.

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