Re: Questions about Size of Atoms?


kumar wrote:
Y.Porat wrote:
kumar wrote:
YP, thanks for the reply but sorry it is too technical for me. Pls just
tell:-
se my humble site:

http://www.geocities.com/porat_y/mypage/html


and you will see some of my findings and ideas more tangible
(it is more than 10 years of work ..... so not too complicated
but i would say even not trivial.......need some 3d training etc .)

Sorry, your site is not opening with above link.
silly me

there must be a point after the 'mypage'(and not a slash -boody
internet (:-))
so let me try again:

http://www.geocities.com/porat_y/mypage.html
------------------

heat does not change the nuc
because the strong forces there are million times bigger
only the H bomb does it ........
there are some minor changes that occur 'spontaneously'
but not changing the main properties of the nuc.

stripping electrons does not either because of the above reason
the nuc is govern the electrons - not vice versa.

ATB
Y.Porat
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How size of atoms can be effected at "absolute zero"?

i never studied that aspect
so i can only guess things.

Just guess, will then the size of atom be the minimum or maximum or
infinite at absolute zero?
-----------

Whether size of atoms can be effected by ionization,

it can be !
because the electron is one of the building stones of the Atom
and if missing than .... makes a difference :
(if you destroy one room of your building or a 'balcony of it
it makes a difference to the size of your building ... (:-)
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outside influences
(by bonding and by contact) and by external forces (geat, X-Ray, other
rays etc.)?

surely if you bombard the atom with X rays (great as you said)
some electrons might pop out

What about just by bonding and contacts AND by low energies--heat,
pressure, grinding, application of force etc....I mean application of
normal energies?
---------------

You can day some substance can be inert or less reactive,
but still there can be some changes in size of atoms?

yes
see above

Yes.

Whether such change in size of atoms make them different by its change
in their energy levels or not?

i guess it is not so much because of difference in size
rather because the *cause that made that difference*
such changes in number of electrons

How, whether an electron will not be somewhat excited on increase in
atom's size?

Whether it is possible; part excitation of electrons in between its and
next orbital without either it is emitted or any photon? I mean, can an
electron remain excited for long, if it is getting continious weak
energies(below the energy required for photon or electron emission)?
my private guess (just at this second folowing you questions)
that the size of an atom just because of temperture and nothing else
might be negligable .
because he energy folowed by heat is not afecting the nuc
a strong heating surely affects electrons
as we know from the melting (and alloyes ) bussiness
so the cryteria and the real change is only if it affects electrons
by changing their number or location
i would say :mainly if they are stripped out of their location
and not so much from their vibrations while still not stripped out etc

""because he energy folowed by heat is not afecting the nuc""--> How it
will not effect nuc? Will change in location of electrons not change
positions of protons(neutrons I can't guess) due to imbalance in their
interacting force?

----

and from the freezing aspect
we know that att he freezing stae close to zero
the conductivity is changing (less resistance to electricity)
so that migh tas well be a reason for somechange in size
the resistance is changing because a change in electron 'arangement'
orientation etc
and that should affect size especially acording to my model

in which there are no orbiting all around the nuc electrons but
rather
'sort of beems (electrons) that are directed to specifid directions
so if the direction of that ,beam- electron- is changing
it affects Atom size ... but not 'dramatically' (just my guess)
]
and just one general remark:

once you what to study the electron size
the less youintervean by external influence the betetr!!

I am studying atom's size due location of electrons, not the size of
electrons as all electrons are same.
therefore for instance the simple way i used it by just studying
specific weights of compounds is good because ther is no external
intervention in atom properties

the same way
once you do waht to do it by external intervention (influence)
it must be minimal and *one at a time*
fo rinstance just Xrays and if X rays only one type of them
for all samples etc

or jsut heating
but as i said
the less inner inyervention the betetr

methqphorically
if you take the MRI system for human body scan
it is good because less agressive intervention in the body
and less influence on the tested substance
ie
if your test is changing (by the very test)- the results
you get into a more complicated and therefore more questionble test
situation

Correct. Actually at "absolute zero" there is no intervention--no
motion, no heat. I think atoms may of minimum size at "absolute zero".
That may be somewhat an "absolute groung state" of atoms. OK? we can
try to understand it by measuring atoms size on making it cooler or
hot?

quote:

The size of an atom can be estimated by measuring the distance between
adjacent atoms in a covalent compound. The covalent radius of a
chlorine atom, for example, is half the distance between the nuclei of
the atoms in a Cl2 molecule.

The covalent radii of the main group elements are given in the figure
below. These data confirm the trends observed for metallic radii. Atoms
become larger as we go down a column of the periodic table, and they
becomes smaller as we go across a row of the table.

end of quote:
the size of atoms cannot be measured by the distance of atoms
because .........
there are many distances not just one
for instance in the hexagonal lattice
an Atom might Be close to another Atom but ......
not having a bond with it!!!
the bond is *in another direction to another Atom*

so it is not as simple as it shows from lust looking on crystals
you must know where is a bond and where there is no bond
(just neighbors !!)
generally speaking
most Atom bond length is THE SAME SIZE !!!
FOR ALL ATOMS
That tis one of my surprising findings
it is because the valance electron is extending out with the same
length!!!

it might be cases (even many of them ) that the *angle * of extending
out wards
is different * and that give s different distance between the mother
nuclei!!

but still th electron extension out wards is the same length!!

you can see some evidence to that in my table 2 of my site

yet there is another table in my book for compounds
that shows the same conclusion
the atom bond length is practically constant

and i called it :
the expansion of Avogadro's law
from the Gas state to the liquid and solid state!
(atoms in the gas state are of the same volume from the same reason-
the same electron bond length and here is where all that volume story

you can predict for instance that the sized of
Al Ag and Au will be the same
in contrast to the silly shell model of 6 sub shells in endless
fiddling with them
we call it in our place:
'to invent and build a scarecrow and later so start fighting it '!!


Do you want to say that atom's/molecular's size don't change
significantly on any outside intervention lesser than their energy
requirement to either emit photons or electrons?
ATB
Y.Porat

------------------------
YP, thanks.

Thanks & regards.

.

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