Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton.


"T Wake" <taswakeAt@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:l_idnZ3kAZt0KWHenZ2dnUVZ8qOdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Ok. Seems reasonable enough.

I assume you want a laser to ensure that the beam is sufficiently
focused - I am not sure about the difficulties in ensuring the beam
remains focused at 1.5*10^8m, lasers were never my strong point. I am sure
someone else can assist with the practicalities.

At first thought, it seems unreasonable to have the laser painting the
ring at this speed but I may well be wrong.

As an aside, I realise this is a "thought experiment," and as such you
don't feel it needs to accommodate to the practicalities of life -
however, as we both have different ideas about what the outcome would be,
we need to think about the model and possibly redesigning it.

Also you assert that it is the speed of the photons that causes the
movement of the object rather than the amount of energy they contain?

No,
it is the energy that does the physical "pushing" but
even small amounts of the energy could do the same thing
but just take longer to accelerate the proton.

Sorry, I am confused here. Your previous posts (wind, gallons etc) have
all implied that your model bases the end speed on the speed of the
"energy" not the amount of energy.

Can you clarify this please.

The energy would only have to be higher if it was not
strong enough to move the proton by the time it got
to the end of the laser.
(I am not sure how much energy a laser loses over distance.)
:)
The only need for more energy would be to make sure
the laser can still "deflect -push" the proton at all from
that distance.

Also, based on your theory that it is speed that counts you dont need a
laser for this. You could use a torch and turn round in circles really
fast. As long as you maintain 60rpm the light will extend to the
required distance at the speed you want.

The laser is needed to direct the energy better and give
a real push instead of just a lighting up of the circle.

Does this mean the push is based on the energy in the "beam" or the speed
of the photons? This is what I am getting confused about.

You only need enough energy to push it.
then when you move that same amount of energy
you will push faster.
sort of like a person can make a car move faster as long
as they push for a longer time and no matter what.
the car will not go faster than the person could push
it at unless it went downhill of course.
:)

Your earlier posts have asserted that it the speed of the energy that is
critical (blowing a boat etc) but this implies the energy in the beam is
important?

Again,
as long as the energy does not lose it's force near the end of
the beam, all it needs is enough energy to push the proton
at all.


When the proton starts to move, the laser needs to keep
up to it and keep accelerating it.

So the laser needs to be capable of rotating at c then?

no,
the laser "device" does not have to rotate at c.
the beam will be doing that out at the edges.
the inside of a rotating disk will of course have a slower
speed than the outer edge will.
It is all up to the size of the circle you wish to make.


All this will do is send a stream of photons at c towards a magnetic
ring where they will (hopefully) impact and "move" a proton. They will
not get the proton to c let alone beyond it.

That is wherethe spin of the laser starts to do it's job.
The end of the laser beam can actually be moving FTL

How?

The end of the beam will be traveling further per second
than the beginning of the beam when it is rotating.


and with such motion could theoretically move the proton
past such speed also as long as it does not fall apart before such
occurs.

Theoretically is a good choice of words. Because in reality its not the
case.

Why not?
What makes the end of the beam not "paint" at FTL?


You have said yourself the limiting factor is speed. (I think its energy
but this is moot as there is not enough of either here).

The speed is the most important part when you are pushing
something with the energy.

So far I havent seen any experimental confirmation of this.

Really?
It is known in rocket science pretty well.
3 smaller nozzles get more thrust speed out of the same pressure behind
them that 1 large nozzle would with the same pressure behind it.


When a particle travelling at 0.6c is hit by another at 0.8c why do you
think the end speed is still <c?

Why would the speeds combine at all if they are against,
and fighting each others speeds in the collision itself?

They arent. The slower particle is hit from the rear by the faster
particle.

That is not "adding" speed still.

Yet the combined speed - even with faster particles - doesnt exceed c.

It is not "adding" it is combining.


Why Do 2 newtons cradle balls just come back at the same
speeds you dropped them against each other at instead of "adding"

Interesting example yet it shows that (the simplistic) v1 - v2 isn't
working. Based on speed alone they should just stop.

No,
the speed has to transfer it's energy.
speed never just dissapears until it has lost
the energy given.


Egg, if you release the balls with v=10ms^1 when they impact the resultant
speed - based on your assertions should be both balls having v=0.

Why,
You are not subtracting speed in such a case.
Why do you think you are?



.

Relevant Pages

  • Thrity Years From Now
    ... The 'plug in the wall' could be any number of energy creating tech- ... ped with laser energy outputs of 10**4 joules, ... provide initial damping for the lense, mirror housings, pulse ... The reason for beam shaping is to compensate for spatial gain ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton.
    ... the less revs of the laser device (or mirror pointing the laser beam) ... movement of the object rather than the amount of energy they contain? ... Why would the speeds combine at all if they are against, ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton.
    ... that is creating the beam from the magnetic ring? ... the less revs of the laser device (or mirror pointing the laser beam) ... Why would the speeds combine at all if they are against, ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: A modification of Fizeaus toothed-wheel experiment
    ... A light beam ... > mirror is on the circular flat side. ... a laser I've not tested it. ... and the light speeds differ ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Scott Lowther is wrong!
    ... conjugate lens which then directs light energy back along those light ... Scattering will not cause the system to fail provided phase information ... from the probe beam makes it through the scattering medium and provding ... A laser originates on the power receiver. ...
    (sci.space.policy)