Re: Repulsion binds atoms


Edward Green wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
....
Anyway without studying the
actual authors article it's less than precise to
get to deep into what they've done, aside from
something (maybe) akin to Cooper pairing.

In the absence of further evidence, I'm sticking to my guns: the
situations are analogous, in that particules which would repel in
isolation ride a locus of the system potential where they attract
(lower potential energy by approaching). The details appear to differ:
not the least because we have atoms vs. electrons, but also because the
electrons pair over many lattice spacings, while the atoms seem to pair
in single lattice troughs.

I have some funny ideas about "force", BTW, though I'm not trying to
develop them here.

Ok, so did AE.

I can't resist an analogy: Say persons A and B dislike each other, and
can't stay far enough away. However, they move in the same social
circles, and have common friends, and neither can turn down an
invitation to a party. In fact, each is almost certain to accept an
invitation to a party knowing the opposite individual was invited, lest
that one have a free field to gossip about him. Because of their
environment, although in society free space their interaction would be
purely repulsive, they paradoxically seem to form a bound pair in the
party lattice.

Well a pair of protons in a nucleus is also strange,
if the strong nuclear force is not understood.

Interesting. How does that fit in our scheme of "pairwise repulsion,
attraction when part of a more complex system"? I'm first inclined to
think the strong nuclear force is just another force, which happens to
overcome the electrostatic force at short range, but then I recall that
a pair of protons, AFAIK, is not stable, but has to be aided by at
least one, or maybe preferably two neutrons.

The mention of SNR was a response to an analogy.

Come to think of it, no author worth his salt would describe such a
situation without dwelling on the delicious irony of how their mutual
repulsion was converted into pair formation by the social environment
-- so maybe I should be more forgiving. ;-) I was involved in a
situation like that at work, where I was forced to work with a guy who
was a duplicitous <expletives deleted>, I think in part because
management knew I couldn't stand him.

I've been lucky to get-along with everyone I've
worked with, I've fired a few, but that was due
to unsuitability. It's institutions that evolve
policies that are "duplicitous" so I've fired my
share of institutions.

I agree with you about institutions, although I'm not sure that there
are "good" institutions and "bad" institutions. Institutions all
evolve towards environments rewarding dishonest and self-serving
behavior, though perhaps differ to the degree which they have slid down
that hole at any given moment, and to the strength of local
countervailing forces. Nobody has yet figured out how substitute an
anarchic economy of free agents for everything which in contemporary
society is handled by some institution or other, so it seems we're
stuck with them, for now. Obviously they have some strengths too.

I grew up in ontario, where the corruption
is so bad the professionals left in droves
for the USA that was called the "brain drain"
and now ontario has an effective IQ of 90-80.
That's likely irreversible, rather like many
flourishing societies like ancient Egypt
adopted a retarded culture, and entered
a corrupt dark age, from which they have yet
to recover. A "fake democracy" that canada
has is not sustainable, but canadians
themselves - vetted of their intelligence - are
educated to that institution and unable to
hold the governments accountable, hence
the government becomes self-serving.
That's simple Byzantium Social Dynamics.

I'm not sure how your no-dipole explanation figures: how do two like
charges in free space manage to increase their separation, radiating
(emitting photons) in the process?

It's quite clear a pair charges moving as,

(-) ---->----<----(+)

has a net current required for the production of
an EM-wave. However a pair of LIKE charges
moving as,

<----(-)--------(-)---->

has no net current, and hence current change,
and thereon to no magnetic field change, so I
don't know how to make that pair radiate.

Yet I think you must concur with me that two postive charges held close
together and then released would, first of all, accelerate, and
presumably radiate. Though I speak in slogans, with no real
understanding. I hazard a guess though that you are using rules of
thumb which don't apply here: for example, when you say "no net
current", averaging over all of space, maybe that isn't the thing to do
here. If we divide space by a plane between the charges, we have an
electron current in the right hand space towards the right, and in the
left hand space towards the left, both increasing in time.

I rather think QED as well as classical EM can handle this.

But then you would want to ask about
"Electron Beam Lithography" or "Electron
Microscopes". I haven't found evidence
a pair of free electrons will radiate,

I don't follow you. Are you saying there is no radiation in these
devices associated with the spreading of the electron beams?

Yes, the radiation is nil, justas the radiation
of a current path in Super Conductor is nil.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker

.

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