Re: Do h and hbar contain mass?
- From: "helloworld" <dadster@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 8 Sep 2006 00:12:33 -0700
theunnies wrote:
Anything related to physical phenomena has mass associated with it.
whether it is gravity or electromagnetism. 'h' and 'h-bar' are
certainly asscited with material objects and measurement at
macro-scales.
Now what is that entity in this universe which is as fundamental as
mass, yet not mass ?
We can easily say ' life". Some scientists hold ' life ' as an
emergent phenomena , emergent as an attribute of material mass.. But
there are a growing community of hard-core scientists who hold that
non-material life and non-material energies have originated along with
material mass and material-energies simultaneously. there is no chicken
and egg type of question here.. They hold that life and matter have
cosmic origins . This means that life is just not a terrestrial
phenomena or a planetary phenomena. In the galaxies both life and
matter are joined to create the phenomena of a living being which is
a different combination of a manifestaion, ulike a rainbow for
example, which has its origins in matter only. But to be aware of a
rainbow, life , cognition , sentience are all required. Otherwise the
rainbow goes '' un-measured ''.or " unknown " , like the desert flower
in the Gray's poem " Elegey".
Consciousness ( the capacity for awareness) has cosmic origins
..Consciousness is a defining property of life. Human consciousness
based on neurons, is just a particular aspect ot Cosmic Consciousness.
nurons in our brain is just a biological sensory unit to sense cosmic
consciousness , like the retinas in our eyes sense light. Cosmic
Consciousness has no mass associated with it. It can be very well be
aware of itself and no matter ( mass) is needed for it to do so..
whereas matter on its own has no self-awareness.Matter is dependend on
consciusness to manifest whereas cosmic consciousness is not dependend
on matter for its beingness.
Mathematical " objects " is an example .Mathematical concepts need
no matter for it to have any meaning .It is self meaning and not self
contradictory too. . In fact applying those concepts to matter muddles
up the pure concept itself. Mathematical concepts need no space or
time for it to exist .A mathematical point is a massless, dimensionless
entity and, is omnipresent. It doesnt need the concept of time as it
doesnt vary with time. A mathematical line has no ends , no middle, no
weight, no mass or need any time for its existence . When a point
develops into a line space is originated because a line has to have at
least one dimension of space for its concept .Its therefore the mind (
mathematical object) that creates space ( a material object) and, with
'' space'' , ' time' too ''materialises'' in order to measure space and
to make sense of 'space' . space and time are created together by the
mind as and when it feels like.
The mind knows only 'patterns' and knows no 'structure'. Mind cannot be
divided or multiplied .It is always a whole and it can be boldly said
non-conserved. Patterns can grow out of nothingness spontaneously (ie,
without cause or reason ).. Structure is required for quantifying
things .Mind has only qualities that are manifest in patterns of
thought.like in mathematics We can only extract part of the pattern
into material field while the meaning and content of the pattern itself
is unfathomable. a pattern contains a wealth of information some of
which only can be extracted out .
That portion of the pattern which our limited physical senses can sense
and understand and grasp forms our material universe of phenomena .
We try to encapsule it in our physical sciences.. But somehow we are
aware of the 'unseen ' " untramelled" portion of the pattern and keep
enhancing our awareness to uncover those parts also, by bringing their
projections into the physical regions .''Life" is such a phenomena not
contained in material sciences . ' Life' has no mass.
It is feelings, urges, and ideas ( all in the mental consciousness
field) that gives rise to material entities like, money, gold,
markets, war and weapon-systems and even culture ( rules and ethics for
peaceful co-existence). The driving force of the material world are
'' feelings" and '' emotions ''.
Can we say that the material galaxies exist because the cosmic mind
felt a need for it ? If consciusness can exist without material
objects then what is it that motivates consciousness to create or
formulate materials?
There is no dichotomy involved here . Materials ( mass less or with
mass) are just another pattern of the universal cosmic consciousness.A
pattern that can dissolve back into nothingness in no time. materials
are an unstable pattern one of those chaotic passing "attractors" ,
like a whirlpool in a flowing river , to say as a crude example. Cosmic
consciousness is a dynamically vibrating dancing entity, having no
parts to it or any large-scale structure to it. Cosmic consciousness is
an idealised state of beingness, conceivable and expressible partially
, locally through mathematical thoughts.
We then interpret in our own way these mathematical thoughts to make
sense of what we are aware of ; to put two and two together to get an
approximate four, so to say.
18 th , 19 th and 20 th century were the centuries of agriculture,
feudalism ( fighting for territory) and war ( fighting ffor
markets).They were all material-based activities and
material-predominant techniques were employed.. .
21 st century can be the century of the mind , the computer and the
robots harnessed to enrich information and unify human thought.
..Massless Mind will be scientifically employed to benefit commerce and
human transactions. May be 22 nd century may bring about the
unification of all minds to do away with mass entirely.We dont know
those realms of operations our collective energies would then be
engaged in, as yet. It is even beyond our wildest imagination, now.
Thompson discovered static electricity ( chrages ) in 1867 . Within a
century humans have exploited electromagnetism ( moving charges) to
hit upon computer technology that has dominated every field of human
transactions and communication technology. Thompson could never have
conceived a computer . Similarly , we are in the same position today.
we cant think of how mind will be better employed than massive '
matter' to achieve human modified aims in 22 nd century .
But it is the century of the massless mind thats being heralded today
..In the path of human development and growth till now, Mass created
meaning . Now onwards meaning will create mass, to the minimum extend
required only. To my mind, we are moving from a paper-less world to a
massless one.
if you walk into the physical sciences' , or life-sciences' reputed
labs today , you will realise that it is not philosophy or meta-science
that we have been talking here , but just simple straight forward
hard-core science .
theunnies @yahoo.com would be glad to receive your views also now. .
Golden Boar wrote:
Some people (namely Poart and Vergon) think that h and hbar contain
mass.
Do you think that h and hbar have mass and if so why?
Do you think that h and hbar do not cT'' ontain mass, and if not, why?
.
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- Do h and hbar contain mass?
- From: Golden Boar
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