Re: Hidden Domain - Home of the Wave Function

J. Horta wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 05:55:52 -0700, hep wrote:


J. Horta wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:14:25 -0700, hep wrote:


J. Horta wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:18:56 -0700, hep wrote:

<snip some baggage>

I guess I don't have the same hangup. Particle-Wave it's
an old and as far as I can tell outdated "mystery". It's
all QFT.

Even though QFT says particles are bundles of energy and
momentum of the fields. It is still valid to ask whether
these "bundles" are there between the source and detector.

Valid in the sense that one may devise experiments to determine
the location. But, with these observations come the price of
changing or altering the outcome.

You may say yes.

Yes, I say yes.

So the field can conspire to distribute the bundles of
energy to one point only in the photographic plate?

Well, that is the whole quantum deal. For photons and atoms
this is understood in great detail...it's just quantum detail.

Right now. Valid scientists still explore the Many Worlds Interpretation
and wonder if the branches split into different worlds. In other words.
The particle goes to both slits (or different worlds). What do you say
about them?

Well, they are unable or unwilling to accept facts about nature at face
value. The entire "spooky" in both slits at the same time dilema is
brought on by losing sight of the fact that one is talking about
collections of potential experiments. If you ask the question which slit a
particle comes through, you get a definite answer. It's just that getting
this answer mucks up or effects other measurements one may make. These
kinds of "quantum eraser" experiemnts have been done. And guess what? The
world is just the way QM predicts. So I go about life accepting that there
is this thing called a wave vector that determines potential outcomes of
classes of experiments.

You are forgetting about one electron at a time experiment
which can also produce interference pattern.

No, it's more like you don't understand what I'm saying.

Pls. elaborate. The mystery folks want to tackle is the mystery
of the superposition principle and how to reconcile it with
reality. The state vector can be in any possibility. Why is
the classical world as it is. Why don't we see superposition
of Saddam being a dictator and a saint. And it is a valid
concern of physicists tackling quantum interpretations.
You are feeling like it's all just squibble on papers and
formulas and disconnected from reality.


Even Feynman is dumbstruck by this.

So? Why shouldn't we be. I'm just for taking it all at face value.

In the olden days before they can do
one electron or one molecule at a time, you could say it is just
statistical but we have technology that can emit it one at a time... an
entire molecule and even a virus. What do you say about this? It's not
"collections of potential experiments".

You can have a collection of experiments all at once or one at a time.
This doesn't make the result anymore or less understandable.

About quantum eraser
experiments. Isn't it that the Schoendinger Equation is time symmetric.
Before measurement. It can go back and forth in time. Remember Feynman
Wheeler "retarded waves, advanced waves" concept which can go back in
time. We can even model positron as electron going back in time. The
past and the future may still be influenced from the present. From SR,
You know spatial and temporal concepts are not concepts independent of
the observer, but something like modes of which we think.


Hum, random word junk. For what it is worth quantum eraser experiments
that have been performed recently are in a sence trying to look at the
kind of "spooky" quantum phenomena you are (were) talking about.


They are all in hang-up and just naive?? Because based on
your comment. It seems you are implying QFT doesn't need the
particles to go to both slits because it is the field that can do it.
Pls. elaborate.

For low energy photons

Step 1.) Write the EM field in the neighborhood of the slits as a modal
decomposition. Now, you can't use simple planewaves because the tangent
E-field on the slits must be zero. So, the modes are complicated. Some
of these modeds look like plane waves impinging on the slits. These
modes scatter (classically) and interfere to give, yep fringes on the
screen.

Step 2) Each mode (you should use normal modes) has an amplitude. This
amplitude may be swapped out for an creation or annhilation operator
acting on a Fock space (set of states that have different numbers of
photons)

Step 3) Write an interaction between the atoms in the screen (detector)
and the modes. This is where one sees that the field exchanges quanta
(photons) with the field.

So, the fringe pattern is purely classical, the photons a purely
quantum.

You are describing quantization of a classical field theory.

Yes, in the hope that your understanding of your questions would increase.
If you understood the above your question should be; why do the
operators that describe the electron field obey a wave equation? To be
fair though this is a long and hard road. In a nut shell my point is
everything we see obey wave equations. Interference effects are due to
these waves.


Yes, everything we see obey wave equations. But these are
probability waves. What you may be implying is that there are
real waves and it is these real waves that cause interference
in the electron double slit experiment? Maybe you are
talking about Second Quantization and how the fields of
the electron can cause the waving?? How do you model
that using the 60 Carbon buckyball molecule? How can
its quantum field cause the waving and controlling it
enough to cause interference. It's like you are going to
a mall and when the guard is not looking, you pass thru
both entrace and exit at the same time. That's what
the 60 carbon buckyball seems to be doing. Pls.
elaborate how its quantum field can do that if you
are claiming that. Thanks.

hep

I'm talking
of single electron, molecule 60 carbon "buckyball" being sent one at a
time in the double slits and still causing interference. You can't model
them using the EM field... unless you are suggesting that all objects
have EM fields. Remember it's probability wave.

hep

.

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