Re: 2nd law of thermodynamics in question

In message <1163784222.354726.83330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul <softwarelabus@xxxxxxxxx> writes
Hi Richard,


Richard Herring wrote:
In message <1163776334.395266.157840@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul
<softwarelabus@xxxxxxxxx> writes

[...]
>
>Now, has it _ever_ occurred to you that a stabilized AC signal without
>a pulse contains no _directional pulses_ and such a signal merely
>contains current that changes directions every cycle (oscillates)???
>LOL, so if you want to know the direction of current then you don't
>even need to swap the probe connector.

Strawman.

For the hard of thinking, that means "the preceding is an example of the
strawman fallacy."

I don't want to know the direction of current. I want to know the
direction of energy flow.
>I can easily tell you which
>direction the electrons are flowing.

I don't want to know the direction the electrons are flowing. I want to
know the direction of energy flow.

You really don't understand, do you. If your AC signal source is
unchanging from peak to peak then you simply have steady oscillating
current.

Which, in combination with a steady oscillating potential difference, may be associated with:

(a) a flow of energy from left to right, or
(b) a flow of energy from right to left, or (for completeness)
(c) some combination of the above, such as a standing wave.

You claimed to be able to distinguish these. Here you are:

=====================================================

So if I have a signal generator connected to a 50 ohm resistor via a
coaxial cable, with a T-connector in the middle, and I let you use your
oscilloscope to measure the voltage across it, do you think you can tell
me which way the energy is travelling?

Yes, I can tell you which way the energy is traveling?
=====================================================

No mention there that you can't do it with a "steady oscillating current".

Geez! How many more ways can you twist your ignorance to save
face, LOL.

If that weren't so sad if would be funny.


[...]

>> You can measure it before it existed, as far as I'm concerned. You still
>> won't be able to determine the direction of energy flow from a one-point
>> voltage measurement.
>
>We already went over this. We clarified that we are talking about a
>common scope probe with _*TWO*_ connectors. You and I both know what a
>common voltage scope probe with two connectors is. If you are going to
>measure the voltage on or near the T-connector then you'll obviously
>need to touch the electrical wire at two locations because the probe
>has two connectors.

That's right. The centre pin of the T-connector, and its shield. If I
swivel the T and everything connected to it through 180 degrees, will
there be any difference?

Come on, I really don't have time for this.

You mean you're evading giving a simple "yes" or "no" to the question above?

Read my posts ... for the
umpteenth time, you _*SWAP THE SCOPE PROBE CONNECTORS*_, lol. My
example is 100% correct and I challenge you to find error.

The hint was in my invitation to draw a diagram, and my mention of the common-mode return path.

The oscilloscope purports to measure the _potential difference_ between its terminals. Therefore if you swap the connectors, you reverse the polarity of that potential difference, and the scope trace should simply be inverted.

If the trace is not simply inverted, then evidently it is not a simple measurement of potential difference. Therefore you must be superposing something else (such as a common-mode signal) on that measurement of potential difference. Therefore what you have is not a single measurement.

--
Richard Herring
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: HIDDEN RICHNESS OF ELECTROMAGNETISM Revealed??
    ... Both are stupid enough to believe that hydrogen energy ... Which is the real "EM energy flow ... > 1.1.2 Physics Is Not the Mathematics, ... > to bring a positive test charge from infinity to the point r1." ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: The Rest of the Story
    ... accounted for by the energy flow that heats the battery ... Power is the rate of change of energy. ... indicating constructive interference. ...
    (rec.radio.amateur.antenna)
  • Re: The Rest of the Story
    ... which is storing the energy and provide the function ... energy flow into and out of a reactance during an RF ... store and return the "interference energy". ... You are arguing that the wave reflection model ...
    (rec.radio.amateur.antenna)
  • Re: definition: voltage, current
    ... > Voltage is defined as the potential difference between two points. ... > the pressure times the flow. ... > But if it falls through a waterwheel, then you can extract energy from ...
    (sci.electronics.basics)
  • Re: Wind-energy customers pay less than those buying fossil-fuel power
    ... energy isn't just a concept. ... >> 4 - I can have a large relative motion difference and produce very ... >sonoluminesce bubble is, but I seem to recall reading about that as ... >People tend to stay away from large potential difference because it's ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)