Re: 2nd law of thermodynamics in question

Richard Herring wrote:
In message <1163784222.354726.83330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul
<softwarelabus@xxxxxxxxx> writes
Hi Richard,


Richard Herring wrote:
In message <1163776334.395266.157840@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul
<softwarelabus@xxxxxxxxx> writes

[...]

Now, has it _ever_ occurred to you that a stabilized AC signal without
a pulse contains no _directional pulses_ and such a signal merely
contains current that changes directions every cycle (oscillates)???
LOL, so if you want to know the direction of current then you don't
even need to swap the probe connector.

Strawman.

For the hard of thinking, that means "the preceding is an example of the
strawman fallacy."

I don't want to know the direction of current. I want to know the
direction of energy flow.
I can easily tell you which
direction the electrons are flowing.

I don't want to know the direction the electrons are flowing. I want to
know the direction of energy flow.

You really don't understand, do you. If your AC signal source is
unchanging from peak to peak then you simply have steady oscillating
current.

Which, in combination with a steady oscillating potential difference,
may be associated with:

(a) a flow of energy from left to right, or
(b) a flow of energy from right to left, or (for completeness)
(c) some combination of the above, such as a standing wave.

You claimed to be able to distinguish these. Here you are:

=====================================================

So if I have a signal generator connected to a 50 ohm resistor via a
coaxial cable, with a T-connector in the middle, and I let you use your
oscilloscope to measure the voltage across it, do you think you can tell
me which way the energy is travelling?

Yes, I can tell you which way the energy is traveling?
=====================================================

Yes, and my claim is correct, LOL, as you just clarified.



No mention there that you can't do it with a "steady oscillating
current".

Richard, again, there are two types of energy flow. 1. Current. 2. A
pulse. What is your problem?




Geez! How many more ways can you twist your ignorance to save
face, LOL.

If that weren't so sad if would be funny.


[...]

You can measure it before it existed, as far as I'm concerned. You still
won't be able to determine the direction of energy flow from a one-point
voltage measurement.

We already went over this. We clarified that we are talking about a
common scope probe with _*TWO*_ connectors. You and I both know what a
common voltage scope probe with two connectors is. If you are going to
measure the voltage on or near the T-connector then you'll obviously
need to touch the electrical wire at two locations because the probe
has two connectors.

That's right. The centre pin of the T-connector, and its shield. If I
swivel the T and everything connected to it through 180 degrees, will
there be any difference?

Come on, I really don't have time for this.

You mean you're evading giving a simple "yes" or "no" to the question
above?

Are you blind pal? I clearly stated "yes" from the start. Stop lying.




Read my posts ... for the
umpteenth time, you _*SWAP THE SCOPE PROBE CONNECTORS*_, lol. My
example is 100% correct and I challenge you to find error.

The hint was in my invitation to draw a diagram, and my mention of the
common-mode return path.

Just as I thought. You can't find error.




The oscilloscope purports to measure the _potential difference_ between
its terminals. Therefore if you swap the connectors, you reverse the
polarity of that potential difference, and the scope trace should simply
be inverted.

You are not reading. I _*clearly*_ stated that was for measuring a
pulse. Go back and read. And you _clearly_ replied asking how that
would work, thereby demonstrating you are not thinking deep enough to
see how it works.




If the trace is not simply inverted, then evidently it is not a simple
measurement of potential difference. Therefore you must be superposing
something else (such as a common-mode signal) on that measurement of
potential difference. Therefore what you have is not a single
measurement.

No, think about it for a few months and perhaps you'll see it. I
already described in detail how to detect the pulse direction and how
it works.



Regards,
Paul

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: 2nd law of thermodynamics in question
    ... >> know the direction of energy flow. ... Which, in combination with a steady oscillating potential difference, ... pulse. ... >>>common voltage scope probe with two connectors is. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: 2nd law of thermodynamics in question
    ... scope probe has two connectors. ... a common oscilloscope probe that measures voltage. ... analyzing the pulse, swap probe connector leads, repeat pulse, and ... common voltage scope probe with two connectors is. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: What did that thread indicate?
    ... My networks have that. ... temporal nature of my nodes create feedback from one pulse to the next. ... feedback realy means in the context of energy flow. ... The pulse flows through my network act like energy flows. ...
    (comp.ai.philosophy)
Quantcast