Re: 2nd law of thermodynamics in question

Richard Herring wrote:
In message <1164642252.250273.239670@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul
<softwarelabus@xxxxxxxxx> writes

I look forward to when your mind awakens.

P. K. B.

Who said this: "Fortunately I am beyond such childish acts as such
name-calling merely strengthens my character." ?

I thought about my words many times before posting it, Richard. My
statement is not name-calling. I have stated many times in this thread
that all people have *potential*. My above statement is one of "looking
forward" to a positive act. The positive act would be when your mind
awakens. Again, the potential is within you.

You should ponder the difference between my above statement and saying
a person has psychosis.





The
electrons flowing in the transmission line at a specified velocity have
momentum.

Which alternates, like the current. The energy flow is all one way.

You missed it. I clearly stated that at any _moment_ in time energy is
flowing in the direction electrons are moving

Which directly contradicts "The energy flow is all one way".
in the form of momentum,
and energy is also flowing from source to load.

So which is it?

OMG, I'll rejoice the day I find somewhat at my mental level. Please
allow me to once again show you. Can you conceive the idea that energy
can flow in two directions at once? For example, electrons flowing one
direction and protons flowing the other direction. The electrons
momentum constitutes a certain amount of energy. The direction of
momentum is wherever the electron is moving. Same goes for the proton.

Therefore, I hope you conceive there is more than one type of energy
flow in steady AC. 1. At any given moment in time energy is flowing in
the direction of electron flow due to momentum. 2. Energy is flowing
from the source to load by means of electric and magnetic forces.






So do tell us: if the momentum of the electrons is so significant,
what's the equation which relates it to the energy flow in an
electromagnetic wave?

I was clearly referring to the flow of electrons, not electromagnetic
waves.

So what's your equation relating the flow of electrons to the energy
flow? Don't be shy, tell us.

For you to even ask & question that momentum has an effect on
electron-to-electron interaction tells me it is a waste of time looking
up the equations. Look them up yourself. An electron traversing
through space has momentum. Shooting an electron at a piece of metal
results in a numerous effects, one being a pulse wave traversing
through the metal caused by the traversing electron. The electrons
momentum caused part of that energy pulse.





That would depend upon your definition of the 2nd law of
thermodynamics. What if an isolated device consisted of two parts, and
part #1 moves energy (taken from vibrating atoms in ambient
temperature) down an electrical wire by means of electric current to
part #2? That presumes such an isolated device contains no batteries,
gasoline, etc. IOW, the device simply converts the energy contained in
vibrating atoms (say pure carbon) into electricity, moves the energy to
part #2.

And what's the temperature of part #2?

Part #2 would get hotter than part #1. The exact temperature of both
parts is entirely dependent on the exact parts used for the experiment,
the ambient temperature,

And what establishes this ambient temperature?

Vibrating particles. ... I am losing patience with your simple
questions.




and other details.

I'll say.

Part #1 is a resistor. Part
#2 is a LED. The point is the noise crest from the resistor will
eventually reach the LED's forward voltage and emit a photon.

And where does the photon go? Remember you have postulated an isolated
system.

The LED is coated so it absorbs it's own photons. Again, when the
resistors noise crest voltage overcomes the LED's forward voltage then
the LED will emit photon(s). No offense, but given history, surely you
will miss it again. So here goes --> I used an LED for a good reason.
As previously stated, in the first example the photons from the LED are
aimed at the resistor. So the resistor absorbed the photons. I used
this example to _simply_ contrast the 2nd example. The 2nd example
coats the LED so it absorbs its own photons. Surely you can see the
difference between the two experiments. The difference is the resistors
average temperature is colder in the 2nd experiment compared to the
resistor in the 1st experiment.



Here's a new phrase for you: "Feynman's ratchet".

My example is straightforward and far simpler than Feynman's ratchet.
Some physicists believe Feynman's ratchet violates the 2nd law, but
that's moot since my experiment is far better Feynman's ratchet, not to
mention anyone could build such a circuit in seconds. My experiment
guarantees that the resistor in the 2nd experiment is colder on average
than the resistor in the 1st experiment.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/perpetual/brownian.html



Regards,
Paul

.

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