Re: Does a PhD in physics *really* prepare you for a variety of careers?

sadgoodbye33@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Ouch. Harsh, but I guess it's better to hear the truth.

Anyway recently I've planned to leave academia. I've done a PhD and a
postdoc and I have come to the conclusion that life post-docing for
more than a couple of years is simply not for me. It might be OK for
some people as it does give you a chance to focus on research without
teaching or admin duties (though the searching for a new job every
year/2 years is really distracting...) and I guess for some it might
make up for the low status, pay and lack of a career structure and
constant moving but alas I guess I just care too much about money :) I
don't need to be rich but I'd like to be comfortably middle-class. I
come from a poor migrant family and saw my parents slave away for years
for long hours and low pay and I have no desire to repeat that
experience (albeit at a desk). And when I have kids I don't want to
put them through the same poverty I lived in as a child. I thought
about doing what I'm doing now say 10 years in the future and frankly
it scared me silly. Then I worked out my chances of getting a
tenure-track job now, figured it was pretty crap so well, sure I spent
all those years doing a PhD but no use throwing good money after bad
(I'm not saying doing a physics PhD was bad personally, just in terms
of getting a decent job), time to switch careers! The sooner you start
the sooner you will get a decent job. It's been difficult for me
because ever since high school I dreamed of doing theoretical physics
but I guess reality is a harsh mistress.

Anyway I was hoping that there was something I could move into without
too much trouble/retraining but it seems that it might be tougher than
I thought.

Oh well, I will try to get a job and if worse comes to worse I could
always go back for retraining. Is 28 too old to go to law school?
Ugh, more debt, but such is life.


Greg Hansen wrote:
sadgoodbye33@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

One of the common things I hear is that if you can't get a job in
academia, a PhD in physics prepares you for a lot of different careers
because you get a lot of marketable kills e.g. quantitative skills,
problem solving, you are willing to do hard work etc. and so people are
easily able to find jobs. You see a lot of this stuff on websites of
say physics departments, for example.

However has anyone ever actually done a study of whether this is true?
While of course we physics PhDs believe we have a lot of marketable
skills outside of physics research what do *employers* think? Has a
study been done for physics PhDs who leave physics, what jobs they got
and how easy it was, whether the physics PhD was a hindrance, neutral
or a benefit? If it hasn't how can people make claims like this?


Oh, yes, we must reverse the declining enrollment in physics programs,
they say. But they never seem to critically examine whether they're
doing the students any favors. And for the most part, physics professors
really don't know what industry wants-- they haven't worked in the
private sector, they don't know people in the private sector.

It may have been true twenty years ago when a lot of today's academics
were getting their start. But someone isn't hired to develop vacuum
coatings because of their quantitative skills, problem solving, and
willingness to work hard-- they're hired to develop vacuum coatings
because they have experience with vacuum coatings. If you didn't get
that as a student, forget about gaining the experience as a post-doc
because the post-doc isn't a training position any more.

My experience is that when they want an engineer they'll hire an
engineer-- it's basically irrelevant whether a physicist could do the
work if the hiring manager doesn't even bring them in for an interview.
One hiring manager politely told me that it usually never even occurs
to them to bring in anyone but EE's for the kind of position they were
interviewing for, while another went right out and said that physics is
a "niche" and they only need a "handful" of physicists. I've been
warned by one engineer turned technical writer that a lot of engineers
hold a lasting resentment for the introductory physics "weed out"
classes. (I didn't feel like telling him that for the physics students
it never gets any easier.) At the lower end of the spectrum, technician
positions such as electronics repair requiring an associate's degree,
I've been called overqualified, and I've been told that they have no
idea what a physics education teaches.

When they want a software engineer they'll hire a software engineer.
And frankly, there's a good reason for that-- it's a mature field now,
with a minimum set of knowledge expected, including OOA/OOD, UML, and
design patterns, which are not part of the standard physics curriculum.
If you don't know what those are, it proves the point.

Physicists, along with mathematicians and other quants, are sought for
financial analysis, operations research, and similar types of "will
train" analytical positons. If your grades were "stellar", as they say.
I know two smart guys from Harvard that got jobs in Manhatten. If
your grades weren't stellar, and you didn't attend a name-brand school,
I wouldn't bet heavily on you following them.

The PhD pretty much locks you out of the sort of entry-level work that
someone with a non-targeted bachelor's degree like history or English
can get. "Why is a person with your education applying for a position
like this?", they'll ask. "I know you can get a much better job
somewhere else", they'll assure you. If you're not facing disbelief,
you'll be facing the prejudice that there's something wrong with anyone
who pursues an advanced degree without first spending a few years in the
working world. And neglecting the PhD on your resume leaves a big chunk
of time that's otherwise unaccounted for, and employers hate unaccounted
for chunks of time. If you weren't working, you'd better have been
touring Europe or something.

Here's some reading.

"Dentistry and the Priesthood Better Career Bets Than Science", APS
News, vol. 13, no. 9, p. 4, October 4, 2004.

"Supply Without Demand", Science, v303, p1105, February 20, 2004.

"NSF falls short on shortage", Nature, v356, p553, April 16, 1992.

"Lost numbers game", Nature, v356, p548, April 16, 1992.

"Fewer Academic Jobs Spur Postdocs to Organize Against Disadvantages",
The Scientist, v12, p1, January 5, 1998. Accessed at
http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1998/jan/bunk_p1_980105.html

"'Postdocs,', Seeing Little Way Into the Academic Job Market, Seek
Better Terms in the Lab", The Chronical of Higher Education, August 7,
1998. Accessed at http://chronicle.com/free/v44/i48/48a01001.htm

"Don't Become a Scientist!". Accessed at
http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html


Hmmm...I just realized I may have been a bit off comparing postdocing
with poor migrants as the job is still much better than what poor
non-English speaking migrants do and the pay even though it is low is
better. Sure the work involves long hours and low status, pay etc. but
compared to what I've seen my parents put through it's much better. So
I'd like to withdraw what I just said. I guess I just made the
comparison because it's part of my parents usual complaints. You've
been through so much school and you are so smart and hard working so
why don't you get a decent job with good pay and good conditions? We
had to endure because we came here with no education and no English but
why are you doing this etc. etc.? Sorry for exaggerating!

.

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