Re: magnetmotor

On Feb 14, 7:27 am, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In sci.physics, gdewi...@xxxxxxxxx
<gdewi...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote
on 13 Feb 2007 21:50:04 -0800
<1171432203.961347.287...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:



On Feb 14, 5:36 am, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In sci.physics, gdewi...@xxxxxxxxx
<gdewi...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote
on 13 Feb 2007 03:05:41 -0800
<1171364741.561489.176...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

On Feb 13, 11:50 am, Ben Newsam <ben.new...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 00:45:50 -0800, "gdewi...@xxxxxxxxx"

<gdewi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Looking for ways to not make something work is not going to be
productive in any way.

Good positive thinking, I see: trying to make something true just
because you want it to be. Are there fairies at the bottom of your
garden too?

I claim that 1 + 1 = 2

I claim that 1 - 1 = 0

magnet A has a northpole NA and a southpole SA

Magnet B has a northpole NB and a southpole SB

Magnet B is moved towards the side of magnet A.

.NA
.. |
.. | . .. . . . . . . . .<----- . . SB---NB
.. |
.SA

Now NA is attracted to SB and SA is repelled by SB

Repulsion and attraction are equal in size.

This means magnet B doesn't move in any direction while magnet A is
suffering torque.

Where do you disagree with this?

http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/magnetmotor

Fine so far, except magnet B is suffering torque as well. SB is
repelled by SA and attracted by NA. NB is attracted by SA and repelled
by SB.

Absent further constraints one eventually ends up with either

NA SB
.. ..
.. ..
SA NB

or

NA
..
..
SA
NB
..
..
SB

with the first far more likely, AFAICT.

If one rigidly holds magnet B and allows NA to twist but not move,
one eventually gets

SA....NA SB....NB

If one allows both magnets to pivot a certain coupling ensues; one can
turn one of the magnets and the other will attempt to follow. One
could build the following device, for example:

ND....SD

SA....NA SB....NB SC....NC

NE....SE

where all five magnets freely pivot around their respective centers
on a rigid (non-magnetic) base. Turn the center magnet, and the
other magnets should turn with it. (Not a PPM, of course, just an
interesting experimental item.)

Now, where your PPM has problems is that the wheels spin
independently; it is far more likely that one of the wheels
will get out of sync, and then instead of both magnets
pushing each other in the wheel setup, the magnets will
simply attract one another, and the wheel will stop.

One can forestall that by gearing the shafts, of course,
but then one runs into a different problem. There are five
magnets to work with: one in the center of wheel #1, and
four in wheel #2, mounted on the ridges. It is very naive
to think that only one of them is being pushed or pulled
upon; all four will want to get into the act, stressing the
wheel and the bearings, plus negating the desired effect.

If one adds the three other wheels there are additional
interactions to contend with, and a total of 17 magnets.

The right gearing and tuning is required but it's cosmetic, just
engineering.

lets keep our eye on powering only part of the rotation using 1
primary wheel with 1 magnet.

And how does one keep the other 3 magnets from interacting with the
primary?



After all - we can always put 800 devices on 1 axle with enough
spacing.

Yes you can. Wouldn't do you a hell of a lot of good, AFAICT. :-)



(B is fixed on the primary wheel)

NA
| NB - SB
SA

This is your first mistake. There's a C magnet out there (where, I'm
not entirely sure in this diagram); this C magnet will also interact,
and probably *counteract* any torque realized by the B magnet on its
wheel. The D and E magnets are father away but will also interact.

The original idea was to fix that using larger primary wheels. The
primary wheel to wheel interaction should produce some drag, specially
when 2 attracting magnets move towards another fast the energy losses
are huge.

if a north pole passes a south pole it is firs accelerated then slowed
down. BUT if it's speed is below escape velocity the energy is
destroyed. AND if it's speed is to great it will only suffer drag.
Conservation laws become conversation laws? bla bla bla?

I've made a new design with (only) 2 magnets per primary axle. Both
magnets now point in the same direction and the magnets interact 1:1
at a time.

http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/magnetmotor-drawing

So quit thinking and start building. :-) It's not like
this model requires tons of precision, after all; get some
magnets, make a pair of wooden wheels, get some dowels, glue, assemble, see what it does.

If necessary, groove something so that one can slide the
one axle for adjustment purposes.

I'll admit I don't have wood shop equipment but the
idea looks simple enough to build, as a model.

The idea didn't just appear out of nothing it's still very much under
construction. I want to give a way a construction drawing, preferably
instructions where to order the parts them. I'm not interested in
commerce until it becomes convenient for builders to buy a kit from
me. If some one else makes a good kit then that's great to.

So far - finding a decent way to gear it proves quite the challenge.
I would like to have as little duck tape in the final model as
possible. :-)

But how much rpm do we get out of 1 Tesla? And how much energy can be
generated per Tesla of interaction.

Those are the real questions.

I can guess but it's quite ugly....

We have 4 magnetic interactions per rotation, each interaction has
both a pull and a push and each pull or push is made by 2 magnets. So,
secondary torque is about 16 times the strength of 1 magnet.

A good magnet can hold up to 400 times it's own weight. Torque is 6400
times the weight of each magnet. Good magnets with the weight of 1
Newton can generate 6400 Newtons of torque. 1 joule = 100N over 1 cm
So it generates (extremely roughly) 64 joule per rotation.

Of course anyone is welcome to correct this. :-)


.

Relevant Pages

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