Re: A challenge

kunzmilan wrote:
On 4 Lis, 07:25, Pranab <pranabjyoti_calcutta...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
kunzmilan wrote:
On 3 Lis, 15:52, Pranab <pranabjyoti_calcutta...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
There exists a very firm belief about the 2nd law of thermodynamics
that trying to extract energy i.e. conversion of energy into usable
form is impossible because that violates 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Though no conclusive mathematical and experimental proof has been
produced yet. But ask about this question to any physics graduate, 99%
(perhaps more) will answer that this isn't possible because that
violates 2nd law of thermodyanmics.
Now, I want to present a semi-imaginary experiment i.e. most of that
is experimented and proofed, but some theoretically and practically
possible addition and alterations. The experiment is given below.
I want to discuss about Carnots theorem with some little imaginary
addition and alteration to real experiment. In a real experiment of
Open-Cycle OTEC by Dr. L.A.Vega, it is found that with a temp. diff.
of 20ºC (25ºC and 5ºC) and with a steam flow rate of 26 kg/sec, the
gross output is 1838 kW. The energy spent in diff. stages are 334 kW
for cold water pumping from a depth of 1000 m, 284 kW for hot water
pumping, 80 kW for the compressors i.e. vacuum pumps and 14 kW for
pumping desalinated water to the shore. In total, the net output is
1126 kW.
Now, lets keep the whole system intact but just replace the cold water
pumping with a heat pump of c.o.p of 3 and an input value of 364 kW
and the whole system will delver its heat to raise the temp. of the
vapor. Then the output would be 1092 kW of heat and that means 260
kcal of heat and that will raise the temp. of the 26 kg vapor by 10ºC.
then this hot vapor will be used to produce electricity and if a 20ºC
temp. diff. can produce 1838 kW of electricity then 10ºC temp. diff.
can produce 919 kW of electricity I suppose as per Carnots theorem on
efficiency of heat engines without going into further complicated
details. Then by subtracting all other energy expenditures, we can get
a net output of 177 kW of electricity and that is done without using
the released cold gas of the heat pump at the condenser for your
satisfaction. I am very much sure that if the heat pump will be
further used to cool the condenser at the same time, and then we can
get at least a temp. diff. of 30ºC and the gross output would be 2757
kW and the net output of 2015 kW of electricity, certainly an
improvement over 1126 kW of net output. The more the input in the heat
pump, the more will be the net output.
This imaginary experiment clearly shows that even without violating
laws of thermodynamics, machines and systems can be built that could
extract such heat from atmosphere and convert it into electricity with
a positive energy balance. Skeptics please try to clear your point
clearly; don't just say this machine violates laws of physics.
Can anybody tell me what is the flaw in the above-mentioned experiment
without just by saying that this violates laws of thermodynamics? I
want him/her to properly point out the flaw (and very much sanguine
that he/she couldn't).
N.B; don't disturb me by asking for T-S, P-V diagram etc. or entropy
calculation. If you wish, why don't you do that by yourself. I know,
when processes are real, their combination is also real and doesn't
violate any law of thermodynamics.
I will be waiting for responses.
If you wish, you can personally contact me at
pranabjyoti_calcu...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx and
pranabjyoti_calcutta...@xxxxxxxxxx

Your proposal is at first not practical. Did you calculated energy
needed for your pumps? There are losses due to friction in pipes. I
did not see them in your calculations.
Secondly, you suppose that oceans are infinite. Your machine will
stop, after both proposed temperature become the same.
And our proposal is not new. I remember more such proposals how to
exploit thermal differences.
kunzmilan

Oceans are big, but not infinite, I know that. But, you forgot that
their heat is continuously renewed by Sun. What you have said will
occur, when Sun will burn out totally. Heat pumps available lin the
market can have a c.o.p of 3 with friction of pipes. If you have
calculated that by just the temp. diff. the c.o.p will be much higher.
But, I have counted the friction and other losses, so I have taken the
c.o.p of 3. As far as I know, heat pumps with c.o.p of 3 can make a
temp. diff. of 50C. That means, in reality, the proposed system have
five times more gross output.

Unfortunately for you, they are heated not only from the Sun, but also
from bottom. Did you know, that the core of Earth is rather hot?
kunzmilan
To me what matters is the heating of Sea. How is not important. What
is necessary for my technology is a warm Sea. As far as I know, the
maximum part of sea is heated by the Sun, like the other parts of the
Earth. If sea is heated by Earth itself, that doesn't matter.

.

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