Re: The delusions of the idle.


"nuny@xxxxxxx" <Alien8752@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Apr 18, 2:50 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"n...@xxxxxxx" <Alien8...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1b2c6d4e-af70-42f8-a4a1-
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> On Apr 17, 6:30 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> (brevity snip)

No brevity snip this time in order to demonstrate the falsity of
Potter's claim to address my post "point by point".

>> As can be seen Mark L. Fergerson
>> is all bent out of shape because I pointed out

> Potter again mischaracterizes me as "all bent out of shape".

>> that Jews

> I must point out here that Potter uses the word "Jews: in a
> monolithic sense here and elsewhere; he implies these allegations are
> true for all Jews. If that is not his intention perhaps he could
> clarify _which_ Jews he refers to.

>> have come into conflict with all of their neighbors
>> throughout history, and that most of the neighbors of Jews
>> today, and throughout history, have been anti-Semitic.

> Another request for clarification; is this one of Potter's opinions,
> or is Potter alleging fact here?

>> And it is also interesting to see that
>> Mark L. Fergerson tries to obscure

> Potter descends to lying. I have tried to obscure nothing, rather I
> have sought clarification.

>> the fact
>> that Jews have institutionalized bigotry,

> Potter has objected to his imagined experience of having his
> opinions suppressed (despite the fact that no-one has tried to do so).
> Now we move from the nebulous arena of opinion to the more solid
> ground of provable or disprovable facts. What evidence has potter of
> this "institutionalized bigotry"? Further, does he mean to imply that
> _some_ Jews invented the concept and refined it, or does he mean that
> _all_ Jews use it?

>> and use bigotry to silence folks who state
>> facts that Jews don't like to see the public exposed to.

> Is Potter here referring to his oft-cited Holocaust-denier webpage
> that lists claims of deniers being "suppressed" by persons alleged to
> be Jews? What evidence is there that these alleged "suppressions" took
> place, and what evidence is there that Jews took part in these
> actions?

>> The definition of "bigot" is:
>> "A prejudiced person
>> who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own."

> As Potter is intolerant of opinions he perceives to differ from his
> (regardless of whether any such opinions have actually been expressed
> or not).

> However I will note that we have not quite established exactly what
> opinion of Potter's he feels is not being tolerated to his
> satisfaction. Perhaps he could clarify that point.

>> To read the stories of a few of the many folks
>> who have been victims of Institutionalized bigotry
>> visit the web site below.

>> <http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html>

> Plenty of stories about "suppression", but where's the evidence to
> support the stories? Fingerprints, DNA, video or photographic
> evidence, anything?

> Which is this; fact, or opinion?

>> To address Mark L. Fergerson as to whether or not
>> I am a "bigot", the answer is obviously no.

> This is not at all obvious.

>> As can be seen by my many posts over the years,
>> I have always defended the right of all
>> people to express their opinion.

> Unless Potter perceives his opinions being opposed.

>> And as can be seen from my posts.
>> I almost always posts FACTS,
>> and rarely post my opinion about the facts.

> Then Potter has no grounds for claiming his opinions are being
> disrespected.

>> I let the facts speak for themselves.

>> Apparently Mark L. Fergerson problem is
>> that as he does not like to see me post
>> the facts that I post,
>> he uses the standard, boilerplate tactic used by bigots,
>> of trying to discredit or silence the messenger,

> Potter blatantly lies again. I have not tried to silence him. As for
> discrediting him, all he has to do to demonstrate his lack of bigotry
> against Jews is to name some "good" Jews and/or list some "right"
> actions by Jews. That is within his power to establish, not mine.

>> rather than address the message,
>> in a rational, intelligent, MORAL, HONEST way.

> Again Potter fails to define his terms.

>> Regarding Mark L. Fergerson's stupid question:
>> "What I _have_ asked is if Potter can present any evidence
>> <Hitler, Saddam, Attila, Tojo, Bush, Nixon, etc.>

> How very hypocritical of Potter. He falsely complains that I edit
> his posts, then he edits my question replacing the single word "Jews"
> with a list of persons generally agreed to be less than sterling in
> character. Thus Potter further supports my perception that he hates
> Jews.

>> have _also_ performed actions he could define as "right"."

>> The answer is "of course".

> Then logically Potter can provide examples, yet he repeatedly
> refuses to actually do so.

>> But what does that have to do with calling attention
>> to that fact that Jews have come into conflict with all of
>> their neighbors throughout history, that they have
>> institutionalized bigotry, and use it and media presence
>> to silence critics and promote their agenda (Money and power),
>> and with the fact that Jews have a long history of
>> instigating conflict and war for power and riches?

> Potter claims that the media are not to be trusted because Jews
> manipulate them to promote their agenda to the detriment of everyone
> else.

> By Potter's own reasoning, his reporting of Jewish misdeeds is not
> to be trusted because it promotes what I perceive to be his anti-
> Jewish agenda.

> All Potter has to do to falsify that perception is to report on some
> "good" Jews and/or "right" actions by Jews.

> But Potter will continue to refuse to do so, hence Potter is not to
> be considered a reliable source of information. If Potter considers
> this to be an example of my attempting to discredit him I remind him
> that I am powerless to do so; only he has the power to accredit
> himself as reliable by falsifying my perception of his bigotry.

To address Mark L. Fergerson's post point by point:

As will be seen, Potter addresses some of my points selectively,
omitting others completely.

1. "Potter again mischaracterizes me as "all bent out of shape".

I suggest that considering that
as the thrust of Mark L. Fergerson's posts focus on me,

To be specific, Potter accuses me of "using bigotry and attacking
the messenger".

Below, he helpfully writes:

'The definition of "bigot" is:
"A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own."'

In order to not be guilty of such (despite the fact that I still
have not expressed any opinions) I must be able to discern which parts
of the content of Potter's posts he would describe as his opinions and
which parts as facts. Since I cannot determine this by inspection I
have asked him to clarify this for me. For no obvious reason he takes
this request as some sort of personal attack.

rather than addressing my assertions

If Potter would merely specify which of his "assertions" are his
opinions and which are not, I could do as he desires. I have no
interest in trying to change his opinions, but am pleased to examine
facts.

in a rational, intelligent, honest, moral way,

We have covered "moral": since Potter has not specified his standard
of "right" and "wrong", he cannot complain that I am not behaving in a
"moral" fashion. I assert that I am, since I am acting under my own
standard of "right" and "wrong, which in this venue (sci.physics) is
to address factual assertions solely on the merit of their
falsifiability. This is impossible until Potter helps eliminate the
"opinion" part of his assertions from consideration.

Potter again attacks _my_ rationality, intelligence and honesty,
economically exhibiting his own bigotry, intolerance, and hypocrisy in
one fell swoop.

that he is in fact "all bent out of shape".

It is interesting that Potter projects his emotional reactions onto
others.

2. "I must point out here that Potter uses the word"Jews" in a monolithic
sense.

I suggest that most folks use the words Muslims, Christians,
Americans,Chinese, Germans, etc. "in a monolithic sense".

We are not here dealing with the assertions of "most folks" (whoever
they may be) but specifically with Potter's posts.

Potter has edited out part of my question:

"he implies these allegations are true for all Jews. If that is not
his intention perhaps he could
clarify _which_ Jews he refers to."

Again Potter fails to clarify if he means all Jews or some specific
sub-group of Jews.

3. "Potter descends to lying.
I have tried to obscure nothing,
rather I have sought clarification."

Considering that I, rather than my assertions,
am the thrust of Mark L. Fergerson's posts,

Potter begins to sound paranoid here.

it is hard to see how he can rationalize
that he has "sought clarification."

For example, as soon as Potter clarifies which of his assertions are
his opinions we can ignore them and concentrate on the rest.

4. Regarding my statement that
Jews have come conflict with all of their neighbors
throughout history.." and Mark L. Fergerson's question:
"is this one of Potter's opinions, or is Potter alleging fact here?"

I assert that it is a historical fact.
Note that Jews came into conflict with their neighbors
in Babylonia, Egypt, Spain, England, France, Germany,
Russia, Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq,
and now in America.

Each of those other groups also "came into conflict with their
neighbors" including those neighbors that were not Jewish. Does Potter
actually blame Jews for _all_ those conflicts?

Does Potter seriously mean to imply that Jews are the cause of _all_
wars involving the above-named countries?

Potter also edits out the remainder of his own above quote (my
question about Potter's opinion versus fact addressed both these
points yet Potter carefully avoids addressing the following part),
where he makes two related claims:

"and that most of the neighbors of Jews
today, and throughout history, have been anti-Semitic."

Assuming these are also facts rather than more of Potter's opinions,
what is his point; that since others are anti-Semitic, it's all right
for him to be as well?

5. Regarding Mark L. Fergerson's statement:
"Potter has no grounds for claiming his opinions are being disrespected."
As I indicated
I almost always posts FACTS and I rarely post an opinion.

Potter sidesteps the fact that he is the one who leveled the charge
of bigotry against me in that I allegedly hold opinions different from
his and did not respect his opinions; he must logically therefore
clearly state which of his opinions he alleges I disrespected or
withdraw the charge.

And I enjoy having my "facts" "disrespected",
as it provides me with an opportunity to expand on the "facts",
or to draw the reader into a discussion of serious issues.

It would be nice if Potter would actually help advance this
discussion to that point rather than leveling false charges of
suppression.

6. Note how "very hypocritical" it was of Mark L. Fergerson

Apparently Potter is ignorant of the definition of "hypocritical".

From the Free Online Dictionary:

adj.
1. Characterized by hypocrisy: hypocritical praise.
2. Being a hypocrite: a hypocritical rogue.

and for "hypocrisy":

n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one
does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

Potter complains that I "edit" his posts, apparently because he
believes such an act is "wrong".

to get "all bent out of shape when I substituted
<Hitler, Saddam, Attila, Tojo, Bush, Nixon, etc.>

Potter admits he did a thing he himself claims he believes is
"wrong". That is by definition hypocrisy. QED

I have done no such thing, therefore Potter's charge of hypocrisy
against me is falsified.

in his request for a laundry list of good things about Jews,

Which Potter, in spite of his claim to be able to do so, still has
not done.

in order to call attention to the fact that one can
find many good things to say about anyone.

Except that Potter still cannot say anything good about Jews.

For example, Hitler designed the Volkswagen,

False. The Volkswagen so-called "Beetle" was designed by Ferdinand
Porsche. What Hitler did was hand Porsche a list of specifications the
car had to meet and, once production started, change the name of the
car to "KdF Wagen" which means "Strength Through Joy Car". This
annoyed Porsche as he wasn't a member of the NAZI party and didn't
like the use of his car to promote NAZI propaganda.

quickly brought Germany out of economic depression,

By fostering enormous inflation.

while the other nations were sinking deeper
and deeper into Great Depressions, and of course,
Hitler and the German people have been demonized
for their great sacrifice in trying to call
attention to and prevent the War for Profit Gang
from instigating the Class Wars of the 1900's.

It is interesting how Potter responds to a request for information
on "good" acts performed by Jews with a (false) claim of a "good" act
performed by Hitler.

It is interesting that Potter praises Germany's invasions of its
neighbors as attempts to prevent "Class Wars".

It is interesting that Potter uses the term "War For Profit Gang"
yet again. Perhaps Potter would name the members of this gang.

7. Regarding Mark L. Fergerson suggestion that I am a bigot,
As can be seen from my many posts
I welcome and in fact, aggressively promote and defend,
the right of all folks to express their opinions.

Unless Potter perceives opinions different from his are being
expressed. If this were not true Potter would not have falsely
attacked my rationality, intelligence, honesty, and morality.

If Mark L. Fergerson wants to know what bigotry is,
and what especially "Institutional Bigotry" is ,
he should read the stories of some of the many folks
who have been "Jimmy Cartered" at the following Web site.

The definition of "bigot" is:
"A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his
own."

<http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html>

Potter continues to refer to the content on the above website as if
it were undisputed fact.

With reference to the content at that site I asked Potter:

"What evidence is there that these alleged "suppressions" took
place, and what evidence is there that Jews took part in these
actions?... Fingerprints, DNA, video or photographic
evidence, anything?"

Potter has not addressed this point in order to demonstrate that
said content is indeed fact and not "opinion". If it is opinion, then
it is indeed the right of those who provided the content to hold such
opinions. However, opinions are not evidence and will be discounted as
support for Potter's claims of "Institutional Bigotry" by Jews.

Potter's usage of the term "folks" is also revealing; apparently it
means "victims of Jews". Does Potter thus imply that Jews are not
"folks"?

It is interesting to see that Mark L. Fergerson
is not only a habitual bigot,
he is habitual strawman creator.

Mark, if you put together
a coherent post defending the gang
that instigates conflict and war for profit,
I'll respond, but I feel like I'm tilting at windmills
dealing with your bigoted, incoherent, rambling,
strawman creating, strike out in all directions
attacks on the messenger.

--
Tom Potter

http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos



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