Re: FOBS as a Primary Motivator for Human Spaceflight

On Jan 22, 10:51 pm, Stuf4 <tdadamemd-spamblo...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From Eric Chomko:
<snip>

No one has voiced disagreement with the understanding that NASA hires
many civilians as astronauts.  This all has been the counterpoint to
your view that DoD has a peripheral role in the shuttle program.  When
you launch a shuttle with two military officer pilots and military
officers as backseat spacewalkers, then that clearly is not a
peripheral role.

But it doesn't mean that the mission is a military one.

If your point is that the Hubble repair mission is not a military
mission, I am not objecting to that.


Good. Now since military people are assisting with a non-military
mission, then by extension, can you understand that NASA is not part
of the DOD? Follow one step further, since NASA is not part of the DOD
or intelligence, then NASA is not part of the national security
apparatus of the US? What NASA does is not classified, and that was
set up by design. Hell, if for no other reason than to stop people
from making up shit like Roswell aliens and Area 51!


I don't see how that has any bearing on what we had been discussing.
We have been having a severe disconnect here on basic logic:

- You say that DoD is not involved with shuttle.

I never said that the DOD had nothing to do with the shuttle. I said
that the shuttle hasn't had a military mission for a long time as all
missions have been NASA missions building the ISS.

You made statements that were blatantly way off base, perhaps the most
far out being:

"The EVAs are
typically done by mission specialists and the mission is a an
engineering one. Likewise science missions like the ill-fated Columbia
mission was not even to the ISS but was science mission where the
principal players were mission specialists. In each case the job of
military was to fly the craft and not actually participate in the
ongoing mission activities above and beyond being the drivers, if you
will."

Why is that far out? Heck MSers have been scientists that are
principle investigators of their own creations that work for
corporations (i.e. not even civil servants, much less military).


Aside from military officers who have helped to build station that you
ignored, on STS-107 the only crew member who didn't come from the
military was KC Chawla.  That's one in seven.

We sent up an officer from the Israeli military as well. Does that
mean Israel is part of the US national security apparatus?

The Army Corps of engineers built the levees in New Orleans. Does that
make NO part of US national security?


I disprove that by
pointing to many many DoD astronauts.

You disprove nothing as your main point was to claim that manned
spaceflight was a national security event, which it is not.

You are certainly free to ignore any facts that are presented to you.
Particularly those quotes from JFK.

I don't ask what the US can do for me...


Your counter is that NASA hires
civilians also.  Etc.

NASA does not "hire" DOD people. NASA gets DOD people to assist with
NASA activities.

Your intuition smacks of a Cold War communist...

NASA does the selection.  DoD is not part of that process, other than
to prescreen applicants.  So I see it to be quite proper to hold that
NASA hires these military officers to be NASA astronauts.


But only after they apply for the job.

Astronauts and military people are mission-oriented. When NASA uses
DOD people they don't have to spend as much time training them as to
take orders, follow procedures and a timeline.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: FOBS as a Primary Motivator for Human Spaceflight
    ... upgrade mission considered "military". ... here for space shuttle DOD missions:http://www.thespaceplace.com/shuttle/past.html ... DOD doing unclassified stuff doesn't make his work a national security ... with NASA definition, nor DoD's. ...
    (sci.space.history)
  • NASA PREPARES FOR SPACE EXPLORATION IN UNDERSEA LAB
    ... NASA PREPARES FOR SPACE EXPLORATION IN UNDERSEA LAB ... NASA will send three astronauts and a Cincinnati doctor under the ... During the mission, called the NASA Extreme Environment Mission ... "This mission will be the longest NEEMO and Aquarius mission," said ...
    (sci.space.shuttle)
  • NASA prepares for space exploration in undersea lab (Forwarded)
    ... NASA PREPARES FOR SPACE EXPLORATION IN UNDERSEA LAB ... NASA will send three astronauts and a Cincinnati doctor under the ... During the mission, called the NASA Extreme Environment Mission ... "This mission will be the longest NEEMO and Aquarius mission," said ...
    (sci.space.news)
  • Re: FOBS as a Primary Motivator for Human Spaceflight
    ... upgrade mission considered "military". ... here for space shuttle DOD missions:http://www.thespaceplace.com/shuttle/past.html ... with NASA definition, nor DoD's. ... being part of the national security apparatus of the US like the DOD ...
    (sci.space.history)
  • Re: FOBS as a Primary Motivator for Human Spaceflight
    ... your view that DoD has a peripheral role in the shuttle program. ... But it doesn't mean that the mission is a military one. ... I never said that the DOD had nothing to do with the shuttle. ... NASA does not "hire" DOD people. ...
    (sci.space.history)