Re: 9/11/01+3

From: Jonathan (jon_at_write.com)
Date: 09/12/04 

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:34:01 -0400

"Dale" <dmh7@citilink.com> wrote in message news:4143B97D.4070400@citilink.com...
>
>
> Jonathan wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That's what democracy is all about. What some want is a strong leader, a
> > reformer to thumb their nose at convention, but is that really a good thing?
> > That's when half the country gets something shoved down their throat
> > by the other half. That is bad government.
> >
> >
> > And just because the two are sold to the public in well-worn ways doesn't
> > mean they're more of the same. Would the Iraq war have happened if
> > Gore won? Of course not. Would the tax giveaway and deficits happened?
> > Would millions be about to lose their overtime? And on and on and on.....
>
> No, Iraq probably wouldn't have happened if gore had been president, but
> this war or that war is hardly the problem: gore would probably have
> found his own way to assert his membership in the prevailing process,
> and other people would be dead. That's the way it goes, president after
> president, Democrat or Republican, because most members of both sides
> are merely the paid whores of corporate culture, and the arms industry
> must be fed. and - besdies all that - the other processes

You're certainly correct that there are countless forces, selfish and
otherwise, that make change difficult. And makes any one person
or even a politician seem inconsequential in comparison. But keep
in mind if our system was easy to change it would also be
unstable, and even more dangerous to us and others.

>which have -
> since the early 1970s - rendered paychecks static or declining, whether
> or not a Democrat sleeps in the brothel or a Republican unpacks his
> little cowboy bedroll in the Oval Office, and the processes which have
> defeated countless times any attempt to tackle healthcare reform which
> does not involve a payoff to existing powers: these would still be in
> effect whether Gore, or the Fairy King of Sequin Land slept where
> Lincoln slept. Those much vaunted differences are small enough after
> all, and history proves it. Unfortunately, most Americans are both bored
> by national memory and incapable of analytic reading, reduced to this
> pulpy state by a vapid education system, bad policies, and a media who
> thinks its knowledge should flow from the mouths of the powerful.
>
> This campaign season is as good an example as any of the total inanity
> of our "American liberties" as the media allows - because it sells -
> months of political rhetoric - and ALL truly important issues - to be
> swallowed up by the Tweedledum and Tweedledumber argument over a
> political hack's pathetic war record, and a human stump's lack of same.
> Who cares that fully 60% of citizens now live near or below the poverty
> line, and that fully half of the people on welfare, or merely vanished
> into permanent poverty and homelessness are the children of parents who
> work full-time and yet cannot afford a decent apartment, or - of course
> - healthcare? I don't care if Georgie avoided Vietnam: it's about the
> only smart thing he's done. Kerry's attempt to now wrap himself in the
> mantle of a war he disdained

The irony in this war record stuff is pretty rich isn't it? The draft dodger
becoming a hawk, and the dove wrapping himself in body armor.

> (correctly enough) forty years ago is
> sickening and I - at any rate - do not think him more fit for anything
> simply because he picked up a pay check for killing foreigners,
> especially as his most famous "sortie" involves the pursuit and shotting
> of an enemy he KNEW to be totally unarmed. Kerry the puppet they picked
> to fight Punch in the fake arena: to keep us all distracted as we go on
> being robbed and exploited. So maybe Kerry stops killing the current
> sitting ducks and finds someone else to loft in front of the rifles?
> This is supposed to make me run to the voting booth?

Makes me want to figure out how to change the world so such tragedies
won't cascade into the future. My whole obsession with complexity science
is at heart an attempt to figure what the perfect world should look like.
So to understand what changes are needed to move towards that better
future. I've come to the very firm belief that the processes that created
the most spectacular thing in the known universe....intelligence...shows
us that path. So I want to understand those natural processes in an
abstract way, so they can be applied to real-world issues.

Trying to boil down the core reasons for the countless horrors takes
me down the following path. The greatest tragedies spring from the
endless wars which spawns the inevitable diseases, famines and
...fear... that drive things like the need for power and military might.

To me the ultimate source of human conflict is fear of each other
and losing control of our own destiny. So we seek power and
control over others and accomplish this by building rigid structures
and walls and impose them on societies and people that naturally
resist such impositions. Stress invariably builds when a natural
system is constrained by fixed ideas. This source of stress and
conflict is a mathematical axiom in complexity science.

Conflict, all human conflict, ultimately is caused by a lack of understanding
that a natural system....people or societies...must be governed by
equally natural, adaptive and evolving structures. But many will not
relinquish control and allow such a system due to the fear of the
consequences. They assume chaos would result, when in fact
just the opposite is true. So we do exactly the wrong thing, try
to 'determine' by force or pre-design our own future.

We believe control is the answer when it's the problem.

It is the ignorance of nature that sustains this fear and the continued
mistaken idea that we can control an adaptive system. It is
ignorance that drives human conflict and the horrors of
history.

This is why I've taken on a new obsession, the Mars mission.
I know for a fact that Meridiani was/is bathed in bacteria.
That the ....second genesis...the second biology data point
has been found. This magnificent discovery will transform
both science and religion....the two great conflicting camps....
into one new view. A view of nature and it's processes that
will sweep the world and begin to ......END....the ignorance
of nature that drives all horrors.

I feel very strongly about this.

Once the realization occurs that we are not alone, that the
universe is in fact swimming in life, the world is going to
want to know why. And those questions, and answers, will
enlighten all to the processes of nature and how to apply
them.

This discovery on Mars will shock the world, and create
a new consciousness that is just the medicine this planet
needs. Complexity science is also all about critical points,
finding the sensitive spots. This subject of life elsewhere
is an obvious and powerful critical point.

You do know before I came to this ng I spend several
years in the underground ngs. Those ngs, just two or
three, still have millions of lurkers every day. And are
watched intently by every law enforcement agency in
the western world

These ngs not only have a massive potential audience, but
reach deeply into the most powerful govts on earth.

A few people can change the world Dale.

Right now I'm trying to summon the nerve to jump back
into those ngs to force an end to the silence over
Meridiani. The cover up is on big time. It is a very
sensitive issue that can be pushed to the surface.

A few people can change the world. Nature shows the
way. We must make them afraid of being uncovered,
afraid of losing control....afraid of US.

Those ngs originally spawned just that king of fear in
our societies and govt, and that resulted in something
beautiful. A Supreme Court case giving the First
Amendment to the internet.

Creating change, in theory, is rather simple.
We generate change by creating the maximum fear.
We create such fear by losing /all/ of our own.

We must also combine that with the faith that pushing
a system far from equilibrium is the path to force
it to evolve.

I think I've figured out what needs to be done, I have
to figure out exactly /how/ next. That's the hard part.

Jonathan

"I LIVED on dread; to those who know
The stimulus there is
In danger, other impetus
Is numb and vital-less.

As 't were a spur upon the soul,
A fear will urge it where
To go without the spectre's aid
Were challenging despair."

By E Dickinson

NASA Technical Memorandum
WORKSHOP ON
THE SOCIETAL IMPLICATIONS OF
ASTROBIOLOGY
FINAL REPORT
http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/workshops/societal/societal_report.pdf

page 6
" .... it is extremely important for us to be highly knowledgeable
about the likely reactions of different constituencies (the press, various
religious groups, political leaders, and the general public).
We would be foolish and negligent if we did not study such reactions
well ahead of time and make state-of-the art preparations for major
discoveries. Carefully prepared plans should be in place very
soon, because evidence of extraterrestrial life could be found
at any time."

page 22
"Many people still fight the concept of Darwinian evolution, and some
people may be truly fearful of extraterrestrial life. Some of these people
may use their political clout to deter astrobiology. For people who
believe that they were created in God's image, discoveries of other life
forms could prove devastating and perhaps lead to violent reactions.
Astrobiology could replace the Cold War as a source of ideas and
controversies. This could continue for decades."

page 29
"The discovery may stimulate a worldwide resurgence in religious activity."

page 31
"At that point we will not have to undertake lengthy preparations before
we can collect the information that we need to "manage" contact
and plan for the post-contact world."

page 10
Action Items

"Establish a Circle of Consultants to assist the Steering Committee.
Comprised of known leaders within various fields, members of
the circle would draw the attention of the Steering Committee to........"

page 36
"One of the reasons for this is a sense of urgency: confirmation of extraterrestrial
life could occur at any time and in any of a number of ways.
When it occurs, we may have only limited control over the situation."

s
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>
> >
> > These things matter. It's important to think clearly. It's the effect that
> > matters, not the person, not the packaging or all the other nonsense.
> >
> > It's the EFFECT. Dale looks only at input and as a result sees only
> > the crap. No one argues that nonsense doesn't exist, only that
> > it's not what really matters. Dale looks are how things are, we should
> > imagine where we want to be instead. And try to find the best path.
>
> And you know nothing of what I think or feel or have dreamt of for not
> only the American people, but people all over the world. "Input"? What
> in *** does that mean: I've been looking intently at results for quite
> a while now. And - anyway - GIGO. It's still true: the input matters.
>
> Effects: America is more widely hated than ever before. We are - as a
> consequence - bound to be less safe, and - as a result of that input you
> sghuffle aside so unthinkingly, more and more of our resources are
> being eaten up by weapons systems and endless shadow payments to keep
> our international crew of thugs in line. So, effects: more Americans
> (even working Americans, since your kind so worships the idea of jobs)
> in poverty, a worsening healthcare system, the erosion of our liberties
> in a series of paranoid actions NOT limited to Republicans or their
> reflections the Democrats, schools closing, people exiting schools with
> no idea of how to think analytically or to aim for a higher target than
> a "decent job" and a car or two, people all over the world dead or
> impoverished by American policies, CEOs making obscene amounts of money
> while employees are trapped in an economic sinkhole. And more. And more.
> And even more.
>
> Wake up, Sleeping Bootlick.
>
> dmh
>
>
>