Re: Support from the lurker

From: Christian Ramos (cramos49_at_yahoo.co.nz)
Date: 09/26/04 

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 02:45:53 GMT

"The RIker" <rikerpill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40dae51.0409241942.24497132@posting.google.com...
> Christian Ramos keep going man dont let these fossils
> get to ya.We know what cretins they are.Ya can find
> them talin about the report ya mentioned all over the
> net.Hears a line its a "total study of the
> construction and operation of a dededicated Tourism
> facility on the moon".

Sure. But people will make up their own minds. Sure, Rand hasnt made any
significant contributions in his career, nor is he familiar with major
tourism studies, but hey if he wants to pretend to be a Tourism Expert does
anyone care.

>Even the dweebs at NASA has
> stuff on it.

Dont make the mistake of lumping the people working for Nasa and the NASA
organisation. They are different things.

> dont treat em nice give it to them.Go back to the
> thread dont back away from them.

Why?. I was treating 'him nice' as you put it to see if he could be coaxed
into actually addressing the issue or at the least to read the topic to
which we were discussing. In just about every industry there are people who
due to them being around so long gain alot of experience some become wise,
others like George stop integrating new information and take on the task of
trying to get everyone to belive their point of view and attack anyone who
doesnt. Again, does anyone care, if the only thing he has left is to try and
abuse people to support his position, well so be it. There good for meet and
greet at conferences and events, so all serve a purpose.

They always row out
> the propreitary crap to support their corporate
> masters.

Sure. It wasnt that long ago that George was claiming he had some new
technologies but couldnt discuss them because they were 'propreitary'. He is
aware of it. Your making the mistake of assuming George was arguing the
issue, he wasnt, I dont think he even read it, it was simply a instinctive
response to attack someone who didnt automatically agree with him. Note, how
he referred to a reference I provided as an anonymous reference and then a
conspiracy type reference. It's simply the delusion they live in their own
minds that everyone else has to conform to.

> All the shits around here think off is that spending
> money on big rockets is important.noone cares we all
> just want to be in space.Hes lying about tha american
> studies too they are all about rockets as ya said.Dont
> fall for there bull*** man.

I think your misrepresenting my statements. I believe that if for example,
Boeing is going to do a study on space, its going to focus around something
that will see more of their products sold. In the case of the large US
aerospace companies, it would revolve around vehicles and launch
infrastructure. I pointed out that their are many Corporate studies done not
by aerospace but by industrial or services companies who couldnt give a yoke
about rockets except as a cost and capacity point in their study and gave a
reference to one.
>
> Their just cowards without a clue man they rewrote the
> thread to stuff ya didnt even write and made out a new
> bunch of crap.

Attempt to divert the subject and load inference and supposition layer after
layer is the general approach. What else can they do, argue the facts, then
they might have to admit they were wrong or even provide a reference,
something they believe they shouldnt have to do. Posturing and perception
is the only thing they have so let them do it. On the other hand, if your
actually in that industry and are working through the establishment, people
like George can be valuable, given their long time in the industry, they
know many of the players and provide great networking assistance. But note
the innovations will come from people outside the industry like Rutan or by
Companies willing to forgo the establishment and develop their own knowledge
and skill base incrementally which happily some organisations seem to be
doing in the states.

> Too cowardly to do it when ya can
> respond.ya wont get nothing from email either too
> stupid to do that cant impress their friends that way.

Actually George did respond via email and posted his items. But it wasnt
emails on discussion, it was just him continuing to grandstand and divert
the issues. He couldnt bring himself down to the level of actually
discussing the issue, I suspect because he actually has no knowledge of some
of the points. He did at least stop the abuse in his final email, although
still failed to address any issues except those he himself raised.
Understand his position, the only people who would do space studies are
those that would come and stroke his ego. These people always exist in every
industry. Use them when you have to, and seek out the wise ones when you
can.
>
> How come when they wouldnt answer any questions ya
> asked and let him get away with inventing new
> crap.

As I said, I wanted to see if he could be coaxed into actually discussing
the issue. Yes I'm aware of him avoiding my questions, note when forced to
answer them he couldnt justify his responses. This is all standard.

>dont hold back man Im telling ya this is
> newsgroups stick it to em.This is the standard tactic
> theyll bury ya.they cant even prove the mighty Simberg as a
> expert hes juts a pompous ass as ya said.

Why. There's nothing of importance here. You dont get brownie points here.
People will take away what they want from a newsgroup. Especially in the
.Policy newsgroup, where everything is so factionalised.

>Cant do
> anythin like real people like Burt Rutan.

Interesting isnt it. A telling quote from George was he claim in email that
all the companies were close to people such as him, except Scaled
Composites. That is, the company that was a success was the one that didnt
leverage people such as him. I'm sure if you go back you can find people
such as him tut-tutting sub-orbital trajectories or hybrid motors yet are
quite willing to jump on Burt's wagon. It's the classic old establishment
versus the new. People like George fear the new, or change in general.
>
> theyre claimin a google conspiracy ate simberg
> posts.Any moron can search and see hes never posted
> anything of relevance just funny little attacks

Well again. People will make their own minds up. In the emails George wasnt
attempting to prove that Rand had ever supplied references, just that in
George's mind he had so it was up to everyone else to believe him. Note the
reference I'd provided was later referred to by George as a Anonymous
reference and then later a conspiracy of a secret cabal. They only see what
they want to see.
>
> So dont let the loosers get to ya.Dont go away thats
> what they always try and do drive away anyone that
> doesnt agree with their garbage

I'll stop posting when I stop getting any useful ideas or information from
the group, not when George tells me to. Just been quiet because it's start
of School holidays out here and have to get everything ready for the Family
vacation. Remember, though they'll always have more time to attack you, then
you them, because that's the only thing they have left. You only need look
at how sterile the tech group is under George's control.
>
> Oh and start of a thread on SPS we need to talk about
> real things not their crap.

Maybe when I return, as am not sure of access up the coast. Why dont you
start one. I'm taking the advice of one of the email respondants, I've
decided not to comment on anything that isnt related to space in this
newsgroup. The good news is I guess that means I'll never have to respond to
Rand ;)