Re: The Big Bang is not the Beginning of TIme......The latest non-linear cosmology.

From: glbrad01 (glbrad01_at_insightbb.com)
Date: 10/12/04 

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:03:58 GMT

"Jonathan" <jon@home.com> wrote in message news:416b2361$1_3@127.0.0.1...
>
>>
>> "Jonathan" <jon@home.com> wrote in message news:416a4d7a_1@127.0.0.1...
>> >
>> > "glbrad01" <glbrad01@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> > news:7bnad.447837$8_6.124560@attbi_s04...
>> >>
>> >
>
>
>> > The opposite is true, the world is beginning to look like us.
>> >
>
>> We are no longer looking like us. We are "Balkanizing" along every fault
>> line. So, however contradictory it may seem, yours is also a true
>> statement
>> of the situation.
>
>
> I see this as a good thing. It's the artificial walls between
> cultures/countries that are the source of conflict.
>

  Interesting. What do consider an artificial wall between cultures? Or
religions, or that matter? Or philosophies? Or differences in laws? Or
differences in individual humans? I consider the walls between cultures to
be natural walls, not artificial. Natural walls between cultures being a
matter of keeping inviolate the integrity of each culture itself. Cultures,
like apples and oranges and so on, will not allow themselves to become
extinct by continuous dilution until they have no more substance left but
only have left a superficial facade of what they once were. The same with
the other questioned three I listed among many other things human and
natural I did not. Cultures may associate but they will keep layers of
horizon, layers of relativity, between them, coming and going. They will
never combine nor fuse together into some overall grey gruel utterly bland
and without any substance, much less distinctive substance, whatsoever.

  I have a reasonable nice view of creek and a small wild along its banks
outside my window. It exists and is viewable solely due to natural walls. It
has integrity, shape, form, substance, solely due to natural walls between
all of its ingredients, exactly the same as exists between human cultures
among so many other things individual to, independent to, sovereign to, each
human and each human group, all the way up to each human nation and to
each--eventually--human world and universe.

  But I do see iron curtains between more people than there should ever be.
They are invisible but nevertheless real and impossible to penetrate or tear
down. This condition exists when they are all manifestations of just on Iron
Curtain. The Iron Curtain the One World State put up between seven billion
humans and the freedom of the vastness of the Universe out there to keep
any, much less all, from eventually escaping, getting loose, getting free
from the One World State in such an uncontrollable vastness. It has been
maintained for thirty-one years by state monopolies over Man In Space. It is
also a treaty, the Outer Space Treaty. "Space is the province of all
mankind." "The activities of non-governmental entities. . . shall require
authorization and continuous supervision by the appropriate State Party to
the Treaty." The simplest definition of totalitarian state is: Everything,
every activity, everything whatsoever, is prohibited except that which is
specifically permitted (authorized and continuously supervised) by the
State. An Iron Curtain of such magnitude and coverage maintained, however
weak and vulnerable it, itself, might be to eventual tearing down, produces
and proliferates innumerable iron curtains, and even innumerable iron
curtains within innumerable iron curtains, throughout its coverage area,
each and all of them without a single exception being utterly invincible
(utterly impossible to penetrate even by the State the created the one Iron
Curtain). Those innumberable, utterly implacable and indestructible, inner
iron curtains are each and every one of them the 'unintended consequences'
of putting up just the one Iron Curtain enclosing seven billion humans into
this one world to impose, to force, One World upon them all.

>
>
>>
>> > The mathematics is clear on this issue, humanity is destined
>> > to swim in beauty. The horrors of history are largely a
>> > frame of reference mistake and a connectivity issue.
>> >
>>
>> I don't know what to make of this. It almost looks as if you being
>> sarcastic, or, if not, it appears you're forgetting the systemic sugar
>> factor, as in mainlining pure sugar. Power corrupts. Super power corrupts
>> superbly. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You can't turn mass,
>> energy,
>> or any other kind of power inwardly to and upon itself without
>> uncontrollably infinitizing unintended consequences, nor can you turn
>> humanity or any other life inwardly to and upon itself without doing the
>> same.
>
>
> Not sarcastic at all. The complexity sciences are, at heart, the
> mathematics of nature or evolution. Utopia is a process based
> on nature, not a final state or object. The question should be
> if we are moving towards or away from a world governed
> by evolutionary processes?
>

  Let me define "evolution" in my view--as simply as I can. Evolution of
structure. Evolution of complexity. Tools that make the tools, that make the
tools, that make the tools. . . Structure that makes structure, that makes
structure, that makes structure. . . Life forms (complex structures) that
produce life forms (complex structures), that produce life forms (complex
structures), that produce life forms (complex structures). . . Layer by
layer, by layer, by layer. Stage by stage, by stage, by stage. Ring by ring,
by ring, by ring, from farthest inside moving outward. Or, from a different
dimensional look of the inside the same thing, inside or within the "tree of
life", the "pyramid of life", each succeeding level producing the next level
above it in which it and every level below it will be integral to sustaining
any constant of symmetry and stability.

  I've studied this thoroughly and given it long and hard thought. Once a
level, any level including our own, begins to output structure vastly
greater and far more complex than any individual of its own level, that
level is reaching its niche phase in life. It is reaching its niche place in
the Universe at large and the vast and ever more complex structure it has
built, and is ever building, continues evolution--proceeding to mature, to
expand and grow and evolve, until it does the same as every level below its
level did before it. But every level, from level up through every level
extant, continuously participates symbiotically in its own way throughout
the entirety of the pyramid, all the energies and synergistics of the whole
pyramid from bottom to top, top to bottom, side to side, sustaining constant
the symmetry and stability of the whole structure of pyramid pyramiding
(maintaining constant, absolute, its fractal self-similarity throughout all
progression). For all life within all the life, within all the life, it is
like living inside a titanically massive living energy building, all the
life within at every level constantly going about its own affairs at all
times while the overall building itself constantly continues to add to
itself countless new rooms (or spaces; or frontiers)--so to speak--from the
very small to the very vast; multiplying in ever greater overall dimensions,
new and inconceivable energies, powers, complexities, and reaches:
increasing frontier, opportunity, survivability, prosperity and just plain
immortality--species relative of course rather than any individual--for
every level of it from the founding level (always remaining the foundation;
the base) all the way up through all levels above it.

  Corner this complex structure production, this "evolution," on Earth and
that which did the cornering will over time warp it malignantly eventually,
destabilizing it throughout every level and dimension of it until it
collapses in on itself and the founding and first levels of it have to start
the whole process all over again--that is, providing the Universe at large
gives this lesser pyramid the vast time it needs to spread out again and
level up all over again to the production of another species level that will
this time take it on out and up to the vaster space, time, mass, and energy,
dimensions and environments it will need to continue to infinity what it
fundamentally exists for, fractal self-similar "deja-vu all over again."
Everything else is bonus; is reward.

>
>
>>
>> > The internet is solving those problems as we speak, the
>> > world is transforming...itself ..now. No longer being
>> > held back by human foolishness but is in the hands
>> > of the great masses....Nature is taking over.
>> >
>>
>> I was in the information processing and technology field for over
>> thirty
>> years. I was in on the ground floor of internet development, literally,
>> in
>> Air Force Systems Command during my career in the Air Force. I know what
>> the
>> core physicality of the net is and it is not in the hands of the masses
>> by
>> any means. Be that as it is, the internet is an utterly unhealthy body,
>> brain, time and wealth wasting addiction for the great majority of people
>> as
>> much as it is simply another communications and information tool in the
>> toolbox for the rest. Concerning information, there is as much or more
>> misinformation and disinformation on the net as there is information. And
>> nothing has changed concerning human gullibility. Nothing exercises
>> humans
>> mentally, emotionally, and physically as much as harsh tests and hard
>> lessons. The internet provides for neither, just the opposite.
>
>
>
> I couldn't disagree more. The internet is providing massive parallel
> connectivity, it is removing the artificial walls that have been the
> source of most human conflict. The internet represents freedom
> and diversity, the most essential aspects to initiate a self
> organizing system...nature. The internet is analogous to the
> second law, providing the complexity and interaction for
> the fourth law....self-organization.
>
> The government/corporations may own the network. But they
> cannot control its use. I know ways to speak on the internet
> even if the NSA had a hard-on for me. There are a few
> ngs that have tested this statement for several years now.
> The government lost even with bin-Laden like
> efforts to silence them.
>
> Freedom is the key to establishing nature/utopia on earth.
> We have that freedom now, and it's electronic tentacles
> have become relentless.
>
>

  Define "freedom" for me in a shrunken and artificially closed state of
world artificially isolated from more than half the world itself, as that
more than half being disignated by the One World State the "common heritage
of all mankind," as well it being isolated from the entire Universe at large
as space being the "province of all mankind" (deja-vu, the "common heritage
of all mankind"). "The government can do for the people only in proportion
as it can do to the people." -- Thomas Jefferson. "Rights" production on a
world class assembly line until there are no more rights. "Freedoms"
production on a world class assembly line until there is no more freedom.
"Environmentalism" cornering freedom into tighter and ever tighter corners.

  From The Lessons of History, by Will Durant: "Nature smiles at the union
of freedom and equality in our utopias. For freedom and equality are sworn
and everlasting enemies, and when one prevails the other dies. Leave men
free, and their natural inequalities will multiply almost geometrically, as
in England and America in the nineteenth century under [laissez-faire]. To
check the growth of inequality, liberty must be sacrificed, as in Russia
after 1917. Even when repressed, inequality grows; only the man who is below
the average in economic ability desires equality; those who are conscious of
superior ability desire freedom; and in the end superior ability has its
way. Utopias of equality are biologically doomed . . . A society in which
all potential abilities are allowed to develop and function will have a
survival advantage in the competition of groups. This competition becomes
more severe as the destruction of distance intensifies the confrontation of
states.

 "The third biological lesson of history is that life must breed. Nature has
no use for organisms, variations, or groups that cannot reproduce
abundantly. She has a passion for quantity as prerequisite to the selection
of quality . . . She is more interested in the species than in the
individual, and makes little difference between civilization and barbarism.
She does not care that a high birth rate has usually accompanied a
culturally low civilization, and a low birth rate a civilization culturally
high; and she (here meaning Nature as the process of birth, variation,
competition, selection, and survival) sees to it that a nation with a low
birth rate shall be periodically chastened by some more virile and fertile
group. Gaul survived against the Germans through the help of Roman legions
in Caesar's days, and through the help of British and American legions in
our time. When Rome fell the Franks rushed in from Germany adn made Gaul
France; if England and America should fall, France, whose population
remained almost stationary through the nineteenth century, might again be
overrun."

  It is being overrun now by massive invasion, massive immigration, from
Islamic states. And these adherents of Islam are growing in fury within
France over France's growing Socialist restrictions (constrictions)
concerning them and their religious and cultural practices. It is the same
almost everywhere in the EU. Europe, stripped by state Socialism of history
(thus lessons of history), tradition, religion, moral and responsible
base--walls if you will--has turned to nothing but formless jelly and is
destabilizing fast throughout most of its states. So is South America, and
so is Africa, and so are the United States and Canada, if one bothers to
observe what is going on with a knowledgeably competent background in the
right variety of fields to do so.

>
>>
>> > As a result we are destined to swim in beauty. This
>> > is a mathematical fact I can prove if you care to
>> > discuss the issue seriously. Until you understand
>> > the mathematics of evolution and its tendencies, you
>> > don't understand reality or our future probable
>> > state.
>> >
>>
>> I've answered this above in two arenas, but those answers apply.
>>
>> >
>> > An Introduction to Complex Systems
>> > Torsten Reil, Department of Zoology, University of Oxford
>> > http://users.ox.ac.uk/~quee0818/complexity/complexity.html
>> >
>> > "Research therefore focused on NK Models in the complex
>> > 2egime, with K=2 (and more finely tuned using the p parameter).
>> > The fitness landscapes of these networks are somewhere in
>> > between the fully random one, and the "Fujijama" landscape.
>> > There is an intermediate number of fitness peaks - and these
>> > were found to have very interesting properties: "
>> >
>> > "First, the highest peaks are close to another, they form a
>> > cluster on the fitness landscape: "
>> >
>> > "Explanation
>> > The reason for this phenomenon is not known yet."'
>> >
>> > "Nor is that for another feature: the highest peaks form the largest
>> > basins of attraction. In other words, if you start on some random
>> > point in the fitness landscape, you are more likely to walk up one
>> > of the highest peaks than a lower one."
>> >
>> > "As just mentioned, these phenomena have so far defied mathematical
>> > analysis, however they have many potential implications for real
>> > evolution: Kauffman suggest that these results apply to biological
>> > networks as well. If this was true, then there is some order in real
>> > fitness landscapes that was not anticipated by biologists. Organisms
>> > may be attracted to the highest fitness peaks more likely than to
>> > low ones, because a) they provide the largest attractor basins,
>> > and b) they are located close together. Evolutionary biologists
>> > have started to become interested in this idea, for it may provide
>> > insights as to why animals seemingly evolve efficiently to high
>> > fitness states and not get stuck on poor local ones."
>> >
>>
>> If you know anything about the science of complexity and theory of
>> chaos,
>> and I know more about them than most, then you know that you can't
>> predict
>> how much waste room you will need to manuever, nor how much waste margins
>> you will need for error, nor how much tolerance and intolerance you will
>> need in a life class, a world class, or Universe class, system.
>
>
> You have little faith. The primary quality of complex adaptive
> systems is that they converge on the best solution ...all by
> themselves. We don't need to find the solutions, we need
> to provide the proper levels of freedom and connectivity
> to allow the network to evolve.
>
>

  I've answered this, above. "Little faith"? Open the door to the Universe
and I will have all the faith there is in the Universe. Keep that door
closed, keep the Earth a world-class concentration camp ("Serfdom" means
states pinning humans to the earth, and it also means states pinning humans
to the Earth), and I can prophecy doom until doomsday and the
world--overall--will strictly adhere to my prophecy. It seems I've been
interested in and have studied in, and have thought in, all the required
fields necessary to perceive the overall event picture in all the many
necessary dimensions of it.

>
>
>
>> Also you
>> must know that tyrannical systems have survived in being throughout the
>> ages
>> just as long as freer systems. Both are still around. And both will
>> continue
>> to stay around. There will be balance to nature. Any imbalancing will
>> build
>> opposing forces to balance.
>
>
> A dictatorship is a wall, a small section of forest cut-off from the
> whole. As hard as they may fight to remain rigid they cannot
> survive for long in the face of the Congo. The walls are falling.
> The internet is creating a stronger whole from a quilt of isolated
> and diseased commercial forests. Democracy/nature is destined
> to win.
>

  Not in the least I'd say.

>
>
>>For most action (I hesitate to say "for every
>> action") there will be an equal but opposite reaction. We are an aware,
>> complex, species specifically because we are so much a diverse species
>> internal to our species. We've been fitted by nature for survival by
>> being
>> fitted by nature for entrance into the Universe at large rather than
>> eventually adhering to any one niche system on Earth. We are "spatial"
>> beings, not 'one world', 'one system', beings, therefore we will either
>> conquer space or we kill each other for space: And the amount of space
>> each
>> of us needs is relative to the individual and can never be systematically
>> calculated and rationed out to the individual by the state.
>
>
> But it is the rigid structure/dictatorship imposed on a natural system
> ....society...that is the heart of all conflicts. The interests
> of the natural system drifts/adapts over time, while the imposed
> rigid structure doesn't. So stress inherently builds within
> non-democratic/non-adaptive governments. It's the idea we can
> out-design nature and impose fixed structures that is the
> source of confect/wars and most human horrors.
>
> Remove the walls and the world is transformed from negative
> to positive sum....utopia.
>

  Democracy develops rigor mortis over time. It goes far too far beyond its
limitations after a while and then is gone just like that. Pfsst.

>
>
>> In my case, and
>> in the case of a great many human 'Outsiders' like me, an infinite amount
>> of
>> space would just about barely meet my requirements for space. Thus I am
>> one
>> of those humans who in no way minds occupying an infinitesimal space
>> within
>> an infinite space, which is to say I would in no way mind occupying the
>> space of a space suit, a space ship, a space station, or an O'Neill
>> colony,
>> within the vast space of the Universe itself. But just as I feel very
>> constricted, restricted, limited, claustrophobic, now here on Earth, so I
>> would feel the same way on the Moon, on Mars, or on any other moon or
>> planet
>> in the entire Universe. I am not even close to being alone among humans
>> in
>> sensing the Call of Infinity and feeling its gravitational tug at me.
>
>
>
> "There is a solitude of space,
> A solitude of sea,
> A solitude of death, but these
> Society shall be,
> Compared with that profounder site,
> That polar privacy,
> A Soul admitted to Itself:
> Finite Infinity."
>
>
>
>
>> Utopian "evolution" of mankind is fool's gold trying to compete with gold
>> by
>> comparison.
>
>
> Utopia for an individual lies simply in the understanding of
> natural processes. The goal is the thing, and nature its path.
>
>
> "There is another Loneliness
> That many die without,
> Not want or friend occasions it,
> Or circumstances or lot.
>
> But nature sometimes, sometimes thought,
> And whoso it befall
> Is richer than could be divulged
> By mortal numeral."
>
>
> Emily Dickinson
>
>
>> The disastrous error of the political-scientific state trying to [most]
>> arrogantly and dictatorially redefine for all of us what is life, what is
>> human and what is humanity (what is Man and what is Mankind), and what
>> the
>> future should be for all of us without exception--the prediction adhering
>> to
>> Aldous Huxley's "A Brave New World" actually coming to pass--was made
>> back
>> in the late 1960s and early 1970s and has been steadily, relentlessly,
>> compounding in 'unintended consequences' ever since.
>
>
>
> Wisdom is a collective property, as is the definitions of reality.
> The collective intelligence forming form the massive connectivity
> of the internet will redefine everything. And with a wisdom
> no one person can possible equal. Soon governments will
> be a reflection of us, not the other way around.
>

  Teh internet, like television before it, is doing brain drain. It is
dumbing down the masses.

>
> An emergent system property is about to unfold. A collective
> wisdom and supreme intelligence with the power of creation.
> God comes at the /end/ of the evolutionary ladder, not the
> beginning.
>

  You've not read the Old Testament's first chapter have you? The fabled
part about the Babel of all mankind. Actually, the fable of Babel is the
third rendition within Genesis of mankind doing exactly the same thing,
Utopia (Greek for Nowhereland (u-topos: no place), Void, Vacuum,
Everythingness and Nothingness, no horizons, etc.), as if it will never
learn from God's punishments for doing it. 'Exodus' supposed tells the story
of the fourth time men try it. The Apocalypse, Revelations, tells the
overall story about every time Man tries it (going for Utopia in place
rather than God's unlimited table of plenty, the Universe at large). Though
I am not a Christian, Jew, or Islamic, or any other particular religion,
I've studied the Bible too among so many others and connected the wisdom
I've acquired from study from so many other sources with that wisdom of the
ancients. The Hebrews weren't the only ancients by any means to have those
same stories, though in differing settings.

> The world is returning to nature, and She is not only
> testable, but worthy of reverence. There's no need
> for science and religion to be separate. They are both
> equally empty and in error when alone.
>

  In the last part of the above, I completely agree. Stephen Hawking wrote
that he lamented the division of physics, cosmology and philosophy into
three different fields. I took it to mean the division badly warped and
crippled all three out of all proportion. Personally I also lament the
division of art and science in two. Life is not so much science as it is
art, and life [is] a force in the Universe. Just possibly, [the] force.
Remember what I wrote about innumerable untouchable iron curtains
irresistably, invincibly, splitting many things up never meant to be so
split.

>
>
> Jonathan
>
Brad

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