Re: Keep the US/Can border open

From: Eric Chomko (echomko_at__at_polaris.umuc.edu)
Date: 10/26/04 

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:38:02 +0000 (UTC)

JustMe (JustMe@NoSpam.nyet) wrote:

: "Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
: news:clj93l$1k4b$6@news.ums.edu...
: > JustMe (JustMe@NoSpam.nyet) wrote:
: >
: > : "Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
: > : news:clgpo1$2594$2@news.ums.edu...
: > : > JustMe (JustMe@NoSpam.nyet) wrote:
: > : >
: > : > : "John Savard" <jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid> wrote in message
: > : > : news:417b0751.13094786@news.ecn.ab.ca...
: > : > : > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:09:38 GMT, "Jim Oberg"
: > : > : > <jameseoberg@houston.rr.com> wrote, in part:
: > : > : >
: > : > : > >Keep the border open. In 'Nam, Canada sent us more volunteers
: than
: > : > : > >there were yellow-bellies who ran there for cover, and the
: Canucks
: > : > : > >came south to FIGHT, not FLEE. It was a fair trade. I didn't want
: > : > : > >any of the flee-ers back, but Peanut-brain Prez pardoned 'em.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > Of course, since that war was not prosecuted to victory, it was
: tragic
: > : > : > and pointless that any American boys were ever sent to Vietnam to
: > : fight.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > Their sacrifice was honorable, but their country betrayed them, by
: > : being
: > : > : > unwilling to continue to obtain what it was they fought for -
: freedom
: > : > : > for the people of South Vietnam.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > Surely, therefore, it is the Congressmen who prevented Gerald Ford
: > : from
: > : > : > giving the Republic of Viet-Nam the aid it required, and that
: passed a
: > : > : > law preventing him from sending troops back there in the event, as
: > : > : > transpired, that the Vietnamization strategy proved to be
: premature,
: > : who
: > : > : > are far more to be condemned than any draft-dodgers.
: > : > : >
: > : >
: > : > : Actually, it was the American people that caused Congress to act
: thusly.
: > : > : Shame on them!
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > Yeah, we the people did it, nothing about North Vietnam having a
: superior
: > : > plan or that they were fight for their own country where we were mere
: > : > proxies. We just needed more troops and more time...
: >
: > : You must be one of Vince's campfollowers. The only superior plan was to
: > : convince the american sheaple to withdraw support for the Republic of
: > : Vietnam. Try to understand that when Saigon fell in April of 1975,
: American
: > : forces had been gone for 2 years.
: >
: > I don't know who Vince is. I am aware that we went back to fighting a
: > covert war from 1973-75 before Saigon fell. We started covertly (1954),
: > then went overt (1965), and then back to covert (1973). Your point is? We
: > broke our treaty from 1973?

: My point was there was no superior plan, we defeated ourselves thanks to
: folks like Fonda, Hayden and Kerry. Covert action in Vietnam between 73 and
: 75? You must be on some good ***.

We tell me what we were doing in S. Vietnam from 1973 (peace accords)
until we evacuated in 75? It is called "limited hangout" and any fool
knows this. Covert operation. Easy to figure out.

I notice that in your world leftists are the devil. Do you like playing
the victim of the evil lefties?

I won't even claim that all the evil of the world or my problems come from
righties. I have more personal responsibility than that! How does it feel
to have a lefty call you out on your supposed higher personal
characteristics? You should be ashamed! The operative word in your moniker
being "just", which has nothing to do with justice.

: > : >
: > : > How would Vietnam be different today had we "won"? Anyone have any
: idea?
: > : >
: >
: > : Like the Republic of Korea or Republic of China. Now contrast them to
: their
: > : communist counterparts.
: >
: > North Korea is scarey and many folks (younger) in South Korea hate us.
: > Taiwan is an ally, but we slapped them in the face by making mainland
: > China most favored nation WRT trade. Just don't try and trade missile
: > technology to China or you'll be labeled a traitor. All real confusing.

: Not confusing at all. Anyone trading missile tech with China is a traitor.

How so? They are our nation MOST FAVORED WRT trade. Explain how they are
most favored and yet tarding with them can be considered being a traitor
at the same time.
It is called "speaking with forked tongue" of which the American Indians
accused of us a long time ago. It is alive and well in minds like yours.
And the reason that I mention it is that it was Reagan who made China MFN
WRT trade.

: Again you missed the point. The ROK and ROC are successful nations in the
: world community. Their counterparts are not necessarily so. China has an
: abysmal human rights record and Korea speaks for itself. None of their
: success has anything to do with whether they like us or not. The U.S. is
: responsible for setting the stage to that success.

Explain this responsibility. Why is it ours? How can you have success in
a relationship when only one side is responsible? Try that in a
marriage and see how long it lasts. Try it as a parent and your child is
doomed.

This whole things smacks of manager theory X and Y.

: > Anyway, last I heard is that Vietnam wants to be like South Korea and
: > Taiwan WRT trade. They can't be like China due to the lack of a labor
: > force that large. So, where are we now WRT the far east? Probably in the
: > same damn place we would have been without the Vietnam War!!

: No, actually not. Had we not drawn the line in Vietnam, in all likelihood,
: all of South East Asia including Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and the
: Philippines would be under the communist thumb.

There is absolutely no proof that that is true or that the "Domino Theory"
was anything other than an excuse to have a war in Indochina.

Your we-can-do-no-wrong, God-is-on-our-side spin is showing, and there is
ALWAYS reason to suspect that type of thinking as being different than
reality (i.e the truth).

: Instead, they are more
: examples of successful members of the world community who's people elect
: their government. Note the recent peaceful changing of the guard in Malaysia
: this month. They too, may not like us but, we are responsible for setting
: the stage for that success.

Yes, you actually believe that we are the cops-of-the-world and that it is
our duty to spread freedom-and-democracy(TM) around the globe like
Christians spread Christianity.

One minor problem with your lead-by-example theory: WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY
OR A REPUBLIC. WE ARE A PLUTOCRATIC OLIGARCHY.

: > Thanks for asking.

: I didn't ask. Try some Asian history or Asian political science.

Who and what do you recommend? I mean if you claim to have some knwoledge
surely you can provide actual references.

You should read "JFK and Vietnam", by John M. Newman. BTW, Newman is an
expert in "Asian history or Asian political science".

Eric