Re: Keep the US/Can border open

From: JustMe (JustMe_at_NoSpam.nyet)
Date: 10/26/04 

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:54:34 -0700

"Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
news:clmcja$1ta9$1@news.ums.edu...
> JustMe (JustMe@NoSpam.nyet) wrote:
>
> : "Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
> : news:clj93l$1k4b$6@news.ums.edu...
> : > JustMe (JustMe@NoSpam.nyet) wrote:
> : >
> : > : "Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
> : > : news:clgpo1$2594$2@news.ums.edu...
> : > : > JustMe (JustMe@NoSpam.nyet) wrote:
> : > : >
> : > : > : "John Savard" <jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid> wrote in
message
> : > : > : news:417b0751.13094786@news.ecn.ab.ca...
> : > : > : > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:09:38 GMT, "Jim Oberg"
> : > : > : > <jameseoberg@houston.rr.com> wrote, in part:
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > >Keep the border open. In 'Nam, Canada sent us more volunteers
> : than
> : > : > : > >there were yellow-bellies who ran there for cover, and the
> : Canucks
> : > : > : > >came south to FIGHT, not FLEE. It was a fair trade. I didn't
want
> : > : > : > >any of the flee-ers back, but Peanut-brain Prez pardoned 'em.
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > Of course, since that war was not prosecuted to victory, it
was
> : tragic
> : > : > : > and pointless that any American boys were ever sent to Vietnam
to
> : > : fight.
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > Their sacrifice was honorable, but their country betrayed
them, by
> : > : being
> : > : > : > unwilling to continue to obtain what it was they fought for -
> : freedom
> : > : > : > for the people of South Vietnam.
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > Surely, therefore, it is the Congressmen who prevented Gerald
Ford
> : > : from
> : > : > : > giving the Republic of Viet-Nam the aid it required, and that
> : passed a
> : > : > : > law preventing him from sending troops back there in the
event, as
> : > : > : > transpired, that the Vietnamization strategy proved to be
> : premature,
> : > : who
> : > : > : > are far more to be condemned than any draft-dodgers.
> : > : > : >
> : > : >
> : > : > : Actually, it was the American people that caused Congress to act
> : thusly.
> : > : > : Shame on them!
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > : > Yeah, we the people did it, nothing about North Vietnam having a
> : superior
> : > : > plan or that they were fight for their own country where we were
mere
> : > : > proxies. We just needed more troops and more time...
> : >
> : > : You must be one of Vince's campfollowers. The only superior plan was
to
> : > : convince the american sheaple to withdraw support for the Republic
of
> : > : Vietnam. Try to understand that when Saigon fell in April of 1975,
> : American
> : > : forces had been gone for 2 years.
> : >
> : > I don't know who Vince is. I am aware that we went back to fighting a
> : > covert war from 1973-75 before Saigon fell. We started covertly
(1954),
> : > then went overt (1965), and then back to covert (1973). Your point is?
We
> : > broke our treaty from 1973?
>
> : My point was there was no superior plan, we defeated ourselves thanks to
> : folks like Fonda, Hayden and Kerry. Covert action in Vietnam between 73
and
> : 75? You must be on some good ***.
>
> We tell me what we were doing in S. Vietnam from 1973 (peace accords)
> until we evacuated in 75? It is called "limited hangout" and any fool
> knows this. Covert operation. Easy to figure out.
>
> I notice that in your world leftists are the devil. Do you like playing
> the victim of the evil lefties?
>
> I won't even claim that all the evil of the world or my problems come from
> righties. I have more personal responsibility than that! How does it feel
> to have a lefty call you out on your supposed higher personal
> characteristics? You should be ashamed! The operative word in your moniker
> being "just", which has nothing to do with justice.
>
> : > : >
> : > : > How would Vietnam be different today had we "won"? Anyone have any
> : idea?
> : > : >
> : >
> : > : Like the Republic of Korea or Republic of China. Now contrast them
to
> : their
> : > : communist counterparts.
> : >
> : > North Korea is scarey and many folks (younger) in South Korea hate us.
> : > Taiwan is an ally, but we slapped them in the face by making mainland
> : > China most favored nation WRT trade. Just don't try and trade missile
> : > technology to China or you'll be labeled a traitor. All real
confusing.
>
> : Not confusing at all. Anyone trading missile tech with China is a
traitor.
>
> How so? They are our nation MOST FAVORED WRT trade. Explain how they are
> most favored and yet tarding with them can be considered being a traitor
> at the same time.
> It is called "speaking with forked tongue" of which the American Indians
> accused of us a long time ago. It is alive and well in minds like yours.
> And the reason that I mention it is that it was Reagan who made China MFN
> WRT trade.
>
> : Again you missed the point. The ROK and ROC are successful nations in
the
> : world community. Their counterparts are not necessarily so. China has an
> : abysmal human rights record and Korea speaks for itself. None of their
> : success has anything to do with whether they like us or not. The U.S. is
> : responsible for setting the stage to that success.
>
> Explain this responsibility. Why is it ours? How can you have success in
> a relationship when only one side is responsible? Try that in a
> marriage and see how long it lasts. Try it as a parent and your child is
> doomed.
>
> This whole things smacks of manager theory X and Y.
>
> : > Anyway, last I heard is that Vietnam wants to be like South Korea and
> : > Taiwan WRT trade. They can't be like China due to the lack of a labor
> : > force that large. So, where are we now WRT the far east? Probably in
the
> : > same damn place we would have been without the Vietnam War!!
>
> : No, actually not. Had we not drawn the line in Vietnam, in all
likelihood,
> : all of South East Asia including Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and the
> : Philippines would be under the communist thumb.
>
> There is absolutely no proof that that is true or that the "Domino Theory"
> was anything other than an excuse to have a war in Indochina.
>
> Your we-can-do-no-wrong, God-is-on-our-side spin is showing, and there is
> ALWAYS reason to suspect that type of thinking as being different than
> reality (i.e the truth).
>
> : Instead, they are more
> : examples of successful members of the world community who's people elect
> : their government. Note the recent peaceful changing of the guard in
Malaysia
> : this month. They too, may not like us but, we are responsible for
setting
> : the stage for that success.
>
> Yes, you actually believe that we are the cops-of-the-world and that it is
> our duty to spread freedom-and-democracy(TM) around the globe like
> Christians spread Christianity.
>
> One minor problem with your lead-by-example theory: WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY
> OR A REPUBLIC. WE ARE A PLUTOCRATIC OLIGARCHY.
>
> : > Thanks for asking.
>
> : I didn't ask. Try some Asian history or Asian political science.
>
> Who and what do you recommend? I mean if you claim to have some knwoledge
> surely you can provide actual references.
>
> You should read "JFK and Vietnam", by John M. Newman. BTW, Newman is an
> expert in "Asian history or Asian political science".
>
> Eric
>

Fred was right. Idiot! <plonk>