Re: Time to scrap SETI?
From: nightbat (nightbat_at_home.ffni.com)
Date: 12/14/04
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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:31:03 -0500
nightbat wrote
>
> Ray Vingnutte wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 03:50:14 -0500
> > nightbat <nightbat@home.ffni.com> wrote:
> >
> > > nightbat wrote
> > >
> > > Ray Vingnutte wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:37:26 -0500
> > > > "Terrell Miller" <millerto@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Joe Strout" <joe@strout.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:joe-1CB257.13365413122004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > > So, either ET's not out there, or he's out there and long
> ago settled th
> > > > > > entire galaxy, perhaps placing us in some sort of wildlife
> preserve.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or: there is a technological "sweet spot" that virtually every
> advanced
> > > > > civilization encounters where, once they get past a certain
> point not too
> > > > > far from our own level, the benefits of further technological
> gains are
> > > > > increasingly outweighed by the costs and disadvantages. So all
> the ETs have
> > > > > settled into a nice, comfy existence with a tech level
> approximately our
> > > > > own, and have forsworn the need for anything more.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or: many civilizations have achieved interstellar travel over
> the eons, but
> > > > > for one reason or another they didn't like it or couldn't
> afford to keep it
> > > > > up. In short, because it was just not worth the effort. Maybe
> the sky smells
> > > > > wrong in hyperspace or the fifth partial harmonic of the
> Sublime Wave is
> > > > > overmodulated, or whatever.
> > >
> > > > Ray
> > > > Another angle on this is that I think a lot of people assume
> that space travel is easy, they see starwars and star trek and the
> imagination runs wild. If any race had achieved such technology over
> say the last couple of billion years then they should have been here
> by now. The fact that it would seem they have not been here does not
> look good for the trekky fans out there. If that kind of technology
> and space travel is possible then some race somewhere out there must
> have achieved it by now, there has been somewhere near 13 billion
> years, say it takes 4 or 5 billion years for intelligent life to
> startup that means there must have been about 8 or 9 billion years of
> techno space travel going on out there, but where are they????.
> > >
> > > nightbat
> > >
> > > Ray, don't tell me you're playing along with these SETI "
> Where
> > > is ET after all these billions of years " when cosmic Darla and
> crew are
> > > right here now? Come on, by your own billion year figures that
> leaves
> > > multi millions of years for our sweet Darla to achieve our techno
> > > advancement and beyond, no argument there. And what would they
> have to
> > > gain being more advanced from us or any other possible race in
> outer
> > > space but lower developed civilization except maybe guarded
> friendship
> > > if signs are shown of mutual peaceful intelligence? You don't
> think they
> > > may fear us just because of the uncertainty factor, think again?
> From
> > > their frame I would be very cautionary, and remain interested from
> a
> > > distance, intellectually open, protective, background helpful,
> just as
> > > the Darla visiting alien net folks are. A multi manned advanced
> star
> > > ship theoretically is a tight very close nit community, not like
> our
> > > open multi race Earth one. From their frame, one contaminated
> seriously
> > > diseased Earth person alien to them or unchecked mental unstable,
> > > debilitated, or dying team aging member could spell disaster for
> the
> > > entire alien space crew. Everyone needs a safe harbor however to
> rest,
> > > with plenty of fresh water, air, warm breezes, hopefully friendly
> or
> > > peaceful folk, think about it. Being of superior intelligence and
> in
> > > doubt, then remain elusive, observing, quiet, take what you only
> need,
> > > and protect the rest. And if you find a spark of brilliance,
> genius, a
> > > warm friendly specimen on a distant planet, reservedly hail them,
> in
> > > hopes they are now advanced enough as you are for communion,
> contact,
> > > call it what you like.
>
> Ray
> You may recall from my previous posts that I do think 'they' must be
> out there somewhere, I find it very improbable that we here are the
> only or the first intelligent life to evolve in this universe.
nightbat
Correct Ray, for that may be why they have noticed science
newsgroup posters like you and me by name and select others, because
of your astuteness. The possibility of older extra terrestrial life is
made more feasible with the resiliency of the nightbat first life
candidate
discovery of the Halo bacterium and its theoretical ability to exist
and evolve under a broad range of planetary backgrounds and in space
itself.
> Ray
> The problem is where are they?, if techno space travel of the sort
> in sci-fi trekky movies is possible then they should be here, I don't
> hold this view that they are here but hiding and watching us, they
> would have had plenty of time to do that, it just don't figure.
nightbat
They are net reportedly here Ray, haven't you been Darla and
crew post listening? What about all the past reported UFO activity
around the world? What about the 10%+ of inspected UFO photos they
can't account for as being possibly doctored up? The military, civilian,
and
commercial air pilot reports? All the UFO FOO fighters they witnessed
during the second world war and flying saucers coming after the
nuclear bombs in 1947 requiring top secret handling government protocols
in
case of first official public alien contact?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ray
> > > > I agree with the last part of your post, to me it seems far more
> likely that space travel is just too expensive, not only in money
> terms but who wants to spend years, possibly decades on a space ship
> to get to another star only to find that when you get there it's no
> real different from where you left all those years ago. I think it far
> more likely advanced alien races would opt for the robotic approach
> and just do what we have been doing sending out robotic probes.
> > >
> > > nightbat
> > >
> > > If an original race was advanced enough to have built a
> long
> > > distance capable star ship you don't depend on an Earth like
> system of
> > > money any longer but your profound technology. Any far advanced
> aliens
> > > or extra terrestrials can search the entire cosmos and will never
> find
> > > another Ray or amazing profound passionate, friendly, originally
> > > inventive, peaceful, all life respecting, folk and science loving
> > > nightbat.
> Ray
> Well 4 to 5 billion years is a long time, if someone had come past
> in that time they would have noticed life on this planet, no matter
> how primitive, sort of difficult not to notice if that is the sort of
> thing you are looking for and have travelled vast distances to find
> it.
nightbat
Correct Ray, how could you miss Earth life if you're a
traveling alien race after so many years and especially recent high
atmospheric nuclear bombs going off that there must be intelligent life
on Earth.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ray
> > > > As for looking for alien signals it may just be that the
> distances are too great and the whole point of trying to make contact
> becomes unrealistic and pointless. Not sure how accurate this is but I
> think I read that our tv and radio signals are only going to be
> detectable out to about 20 or 30 light years, is that true?? anyone
> know for sure.
> > >
> > > nightbat
> > >
> > > Who can know for sure with the vastness of space, moving
> bodies,
> > > and the uncertainty principle, but the weakening signals will be
> > > scattered multi light years out with only chance ability to
> decipher
> > > them with enough advanced receiving comm. expertise like the Darla
> folks
> > > would have to decipher them. Now you know why the Tesla based
> decoder
> > > rings are so important.
> Ray
> Well, I asked myself this, how would we go about sending out
> signals, a beacon if you like. First it becomes clear this is going to
> be no mean feat. You need to decide what you are going to transmit, it
> seems to me we would need to keep it as simplistic as possible to
> increase the chance of someone picking the signal up, realising what
> it is and then decoding any message we send in the signal. It would
> need to be transmitted in every direction, with possibly more emphasis
> placed along the galactic plain(more stars=increase chance of someone
> finding it).
nightbat
Good logic and true for you would need 360 degree sending
power radiating out in all directions for best hope of outer alien
civilization contact. With all our random overlapping broadcast
transmissions that is exactly what is happening but we can't now
receive or decode possible returning LY distant transmissions in the
lower
frequency quantum dispersed ranges without exact decoding or
background filtering noise comm. info or with pure luck and 24/7
listening like Tesla reportedly did.
> Ray
> The signal would need to be of such strength to get it to great
> distances, it would need to be transmitted 24/7 permanently to ensure
> that if someone is out there and looking in this direction they won't
> miss it, transmitting intermittently would seem to be a waste of time.
nightbat
Exactly, but don't forget we also are constantly moving
through space and you would need Earth radio signal amplifiers of on
unlimited strength, background filters, to hopefully pickup the weakest
of intelligent signal being sent.
> Ray
> Then you need to decide when we start looking for any response,
> again this would need to be done to cover the whole sky 24/7
> permanently, because if we take our eye off the ball even for a few
> hours a reply could pass us by and we got egg on our face.
nightbat
True, not an easy task even for a team of conventional
scientists let alone Tesla who self automated everything.
> Ray
> Then, after what may be many of millions of years waiting we get a
> response, we decode it, we read it, but the signal is from so far away
> any form of reasonable contact is going to be simply out of the
> question. Any advanced alien civilisation would of course also have
> come to the same conclusion that maybe the distances involved are just
> to great and it ain't worth the hastle to do it.
nightbat
In this I disagree, for if you were able to make contact with
just one advanced race, like Tesla affirmed, you might get television,
remote robots, and who knows what else.
> Ray
> What would be worth doing is to actually be able to go there and see
> it and shake their hands/tenticle/squelchy thingy, but to do that
> would require the sort of techno space we see in the likes of trekky
> etc. which brings me back to the point that if that were possible it
> must surely have been done by someone by now.
nightbat
Exactly Ray, that's why the purported net contacting Darla
aliens.
> Ray
> You see how futile and pointless this is beginning to seem, it just
> is not practical to undertake.
nightbat
But the fact remains we do have Tesla radio and television now
and wireless everything and Darla and alien crew reaching out to us.
> Ray
> As for Seti listening for stray signals from far afield and long ago
> I personally think they got no chance, but I also know that if one
> doesn't look then one doesn't stand a chance of finding. The problem I
> see with Seti is that a signal could come by right now, but Seti is
> just looking in the wrong direction and we missed it. This comes to
> the problem above that to undertake such a task one needs to cover all
> the sky 24/7, which as I understand it Seti does not or cannot do. I
> sort of feel sorry for them because the task they have set themselves
> with the kind of setup currently in use would seem to suggest to me
> anyway that they are wasting their time. But again I still hold the
> view that if one doesn't look etc etc.....
nightbat
What were the chances that you passed up and didn't come on
this science newsgroup to learn about cosmic Darla, knowing as you say
yourself, they must be out there?
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ray
> > > > And of course if alien races evolve along similar paths as we
> have they just may have learnt that when a more techno advanced race
> encounters a less advanced techno race it does not look good for the
> less advanced
> > > > race and thus they have adopted the view that it may be best to
> keep as quite as possible and not to advertise yourself.
> > >
> > > nightbat
> > >
> > > Well apply that premise to Iraq and free world high tech
> us. And
> > > if you are a high enough evolved alien space race to have put
> warring
> > > negative genetic behavior behind you because of your overwhelming
> > > superior technology, do you not still fear the no respect for life
> sub
> > > race. We are at that threshold now but some of the clueless
> emerging
> > > backward nations haven't gotten it yet. Only difference is we have
> to
> > > live on the same planet as some of these backward clueless
> wonders,
> > > while the space Darla folks don't. Now do you understand why when
> they
> > > run across some interesting science based Earth folks like us they
> feel
> > > a kinship, closeness, and sometimes reach out in understanding?
> For
> > > instance the LY distance between Sil and I is vast yet nothing
> where
> > > mutual passion is concerned.
> Ray
> Well I would be surprised that a highly techno race would have
> nothing better to do than watch us from afar for Millenia and not make
> contact, I could understand then coming back from time to time to see
> how we evolve but then again now that we have come this far I mean
> again it just don't figure or make sense.
nightbat
Who says they haven't made contact except in official circles.
The evidence is right here on the net, Darla and crew wants official
contact but the Commander Pros is hesitant because of the far reaching
consequences. I am hoping to dispel their fears of first official
contact, for many on this science newsgroup have ascertained their
readiness and willingness to assist like you Ray.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Or: ...
> > >
> > > > > Terrell Miller
> > > > > millerto@bellsouth.net
> > >
> > > nightbat
> > >
> > > Or nothing, it's now or never, either we learn to co exist
> or
> > > perish trying. Nothing ventured nothing gained, the proof is in
> the
> > > pudding. Individual or race advancement is based on trust,
> sharing,
> > > daring, fearless courage of the unknown, tempered mental and
> physical
> > > discipline, and mutual search for knowledge of the cosmos. Very
> > > important Community peaceful race sharing is what advances you not
> hate,
> > > aggression, and mistrust, which leads to war and death. Remember
> the
> > > high flying American Eagle, ready prepared warring arrows in one
> hand
> > > and the peaceful olive branch in the other talon. Once you
> understand
> > > how advanced someone's arrows are, thoughts of war are never
> > > contemplated. It's the mental rejects and clueless nitwits that
> spoil
> > > everything, cause they're potentially hopeless. They need an
> > > enlightenment pill called humanity, we are all in this together.
> Ray
> But we don't know there is anything out there locally to coexist
> with, at this time. Look, I don't know anyone, if a spaceship landed
> in front of me I would beg to go off with them and explore the
> universe, I have nothing to keep me here, a miserable bloody planet.
> There must be wonders out there to explore, but I cannot see it
> happening in my lifetime for sure.
nightbat
Your scientific interest and readiness daring is probably what
caught
the net Darla aliens attention Ray. You are being watched as potential
future star travel candidate, like a select few of the other world
folks and net posters that have shown enlightenment. If I were a
traveling
advanced race monitoring all transmissions and spotted the spark of
intelligence, science interested Earth specimens, friendliness, and
humanity, I would come visit, stop, and investigate if nothing else.
the nightbat
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