Re: What if we still had Saturn V

From: Eric Chomko (echomko_at__at_polaris.umuc.edu)
Date: 01/12/05 

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:17:29 +0000 (UTC)

Fred J. McCall (fmccall@earthlink.net) wrote:
: echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu (Eric Chomko) wrote:

: :Fred J. McCall (fmccall@earthlink.net) wrote:
: :: echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu (Eric Chomko) wrote:
: :
: :: :Fred J. McCall (fmccall@earthlink.net) wrote:
: :: ::
: :: :: And this is a chicken and egg sort of thing. No one proposes any
: :: :: missions that could use that much lift because there's no existing
: :: :: vehicle to perform it.
: :: :
: :: :No one? Bush wants to go back to the moon. We used the Saturn V to go to
: :: :the moon in the first place. Therefore, either Bush is lying or we need a
: :: :Saturn V-equivalent replacement. Where is THAT discussion when you folks
: :: :speak of "no need"?
: :
: :: We used the Conestoga wagon to settle the West. I don't see families
: :: rushing out to buy them these days when they want to go west.
: :
: :Most fly, but that is beside the point...

: No, that is PRECISELY the point.

: Let me explain it to you.

: The settlers for the West went by Conestoga wagon.

: The first visits to the Moon went by Saturn V.

: People these days going west do not decry the lack of Conestoga wagons
: and we do not see a big Conestoga wagon building boom because they are
: no longer necessary.

: People these days going to the Moon do not need the Saturn V and we do
: not see a big Saturn V building boom because they are no longer
: necessary.

: Get it now?

I never didn't get it in this regard. I am not claiming that we need to
resurrect the old Saturn V program, my claim is, where is Bush's moon
mission on the manifest and how are we going to get back there? Several
have suggested heavy launch vehicles but talk is cheap.

: :: In other words, you only need something like Saturn V if you're trying
: :: to go to the Moon in one big jump with what is essentially disposable
: :: hardware. On orbit assembly doesn't require any such heavy lifter,
: :: although I think it would make some things much easier if we had one.
: ::
: :: Watch that "you people" stuff. I've never said anything about whether
: :: we need such a heavy lifter or not. I've merely noted that people
: :: don't propose missions for non-existent hardware. That is the reason
: :: you don't see missions proposed requiring that amount of heavy lift.
: :: The lack of such proposed missions is *not* evidence that such a lift
: :: capacity would not be useful.
: :
: :Do we have a lift vehicle to go back to the moon?

: We don't need a lift vehicle to go back to the Moon. We need a
: transfer vehicle and a landing vehicle to go back to the Moon. We
: need the lift vehicle to get equipment to Earth orbit. We have those.

Good, what do we need for in-orbit assembly?

: :: People should think about how much easier the ISS would be if it could
: :: have been sent up in bigger hunks, for example.
: :
: :Hindsight 20-20.

: Foresight, too, since I've been saying this since before they bent the
: first piece of metal for ISS (which I was also saying should have been
: cancelled and rethought).

You can't make progress in space inside the heads of scientists and
engineers. At some point you must simply go into space.

Columbus's three ships were quite primative by today's standards. Should
he have waited around for better steel development and come over on an
ocean liner?

: The question was asked about the current 'need' for a Saturn V class
: vehicle. I answered the question. That's not 'hindsight'.

Fine. Okay, not large booster as we can launch the pieces in-orbit and
assemble them there. What do the pieces look like and how do they
function? And where the hell are they?

Eric

: --
: "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
: territory."
: --G. Behn

Relevant Pages

  • Re: What if we still had Saturn V
    ... :::: vehicle to perform it. ... Bush wants to go back to the moon. ... :::Saturn V-equivalent replacement. ... We don't need a lift vehicle to go back to the Moon. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: What if we still had Saturn V
    ... ::: The settlers for the West went by Conestoga wagon. ... ::: The first visits to the Moon went by Saturn V. ... ::: We don't need a lift vehicle to go back to the Moon. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: What if we still had Saturn V
    ... echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu (Eric Chomko) wrote: ... Bush wants to go back to the moon. ... We used the Saturn V to go to ... :: We don't need a lift vehicle to go back to the Moon. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Building Real Spaceships
    ... on the moon and mars from which commercial activities will arise. ... without any additional use of propellant. ... but creates a nightmare of different vehicle ... I have suggested a 45,000 ton spacecraft which requires 63,000 tons at ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: SF Sidewalk Observing (kinda long).
    ... > Saturn, I had tears in my eyes. ... > John will be at Scope City this Sunday, so if you plan to go you might see ... normal city dwellers who were whisked off to the moon ... >> the eyepiece and uses a truss tube to steady herself. ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
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