Re: Is Crew Launch Vehicle Too Big?


Ed Kyle wrote:
> Jake McGuire wrote:
> > Ed Kyle wrote:
> > > > The $200M mission cost difference was above and beyond the $100M launch
> > > > cost difference, based on a "launch costs are typically only one third
> > > > of mission costs" rule of thumb. Since the only mission difference was
> > > > going to be empty CEV propellant tanks, I was asking where that $200M
> > > > would go.
> > >
> > > You can't decouple the spacecraft from the launch vehicle
> > > from the mission costs. Spacecraft mass affects launch
> > > vehicle scale, which affects the complexity of production,
> > > test, assembly, and processing.
> >
> > I thought we were discussing the wisdom of flying CEV-ISS (or Block
> > 1A), which weighs 15 tons, on a launch vehicle sized to fly CEV-Moon,
> > which weighs 22 tons, versus possibly making a smaller launch vehicle
> > dedicated to CEV-ISS. The CEV-ISS spacecraft and the on-orbit
> > operations will be identical in either case, so there's no reason that
> > using an unnecessarily large launch vehicle will make either one cost
> > more.
>
> I am talking about total mission cost, which includes
> the cost of launch. An 800 tonne GLOW launch is
> going to cost many tens of millions more than a
> 550 tonne GLOW launch, no matter how you do the
> accounting - even if the payloads are identical.

I take it you don't buy SpaceX's willingness to trade mass for cost,
even on a large scale with the 9-engine Falcon 9...

What if you compare a 4 segment Stick to a 5 segment Stick? Is your
contention that, based on mass alone, the 5 seg stick would cost much
more? (just on the basis of launch mass, not development, of course)



Tom


> The cost of processing these identical payloads
> would not be the same either, due to the scale of
> the launcher. It would take more man-hours to lift
> and fit the payload to the bigger launcher.
> Spacecraft workers would spend more time on-console
> during longer launch vehicle propellant loading
> exercises, spend a bit more time riding
> elevators to access the taller launcher, etc.
>
> - Ed Kyle

.

Relevant Pages

  • Nova and other heavy lift concepts - PDF files
    ... NASA Center for AeroSpace Information ... Historical origins of NASA Launch Operations Center to July 1, ... Accession ID: 65N16348 ... Post-saturn launch vehicle study /part ii/ condensed summary report ...
    (sci.space.history)
  • Re: Sub-Orbital Market
    ... There's a book called "The Orbital Express Project of Bristol Aerospace amd ... Microsat Launch Sytems," by Geoffrey Hughes. ... Orbital Express was intended to be an orbit-capable launch vehicle, ... suborbital launch vehicles cost anywhere from a few hundred ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Launch vehicle costs (was Air Force Signs Off on SRB-CEV)
    ... > Dry mass is not the sole determinant of launch vehicle ... also not masked by price vs cost confusions. ... production cost ought to explain why the mass of solid propellant gets ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • MESSENGER Update - July 27, 2004
    ... MESSENGER is now sitting atop the Boeing Delta II launch vehicle at ... Cape Canaveral Air Force Station's Space Launch Complex 17. ... had been processing and testing the Mercury-bound spacecraft since ...
    (sci.astro)
  • Expendable Launch Vehicle Status Report - November 6, 2009
    ... EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLE STATUS REPORT ... Spacecraft: ... for possible use on future Delta II missions from Vandenberg. ...
    (sci.space.news)
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