Re: Space Access Update #112 9/19/05

"Fred J. McCall" <fmccall@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:a5vil1p203v26arp7v4e1ncvu62232k5c3@xxxxxxxxxx
> "Pete Lynn" <pete@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > I would add to this that the design should be
> > capable of fast prototyping and incremental
> > development. Ideally this should be how one
> > accommodates vehicle loss or damage, not by
> > building three identical prototypes.
>
> That's not how we do aircraft.

It is how we *did* aircraft.

> The real question is how cheap access to LEO has to
> be for the market to take off enough to warrant a
> hundred or so vehicles.

A better question is at what point might the development process start
paying for itself.

> Otherwise, one is probably going to have to count on
> flying the prototypes as the operational vehicles as
> well.

It would be silly for initial prototypes not to be operational vehicles,
and vice versa. An operational vehicle which is not a prototype is a
wasted opportunity.

> > With cheap LEO, LEO property built from earthly
> > resources can be similar in cost to beach front
> > property, not a market stretch. There is a huge and
> > sufficient market there without even going further a
> > field. More than adequate to start the ball rolling.
>
> Is there really?

At $50/kg to LEO, $500,000 puts ten ton in LEO. At this, a million
dollar house in LEO seem feasible. The up keep might be a bit more
expensive, but then so is the access. This still seems within the price
range of a very large number of people.

> I'm not sure it's a given. Once people start thinking
> about being space sick, there might be a lot fewer of
> them willing to go.

As per cruise ships...

> > I would expect the space transport to require an
> > unmanned pure cargo operating capacity. I would
> > also think it desirable that a passenger with a laptop
> > could link directly into the same space transport
> > systems as a ground controller, so to speak.
>
> Why would you want a 'passenger' to be able to link
> into it at all? Either it can adequately be controlled
> remotely or it cannot. If it cannot, letting a passenger
> with a laptop tinker isn't going to help you.

Because the passenger would be a pilot.

> The quantity of supplies is too small. That's probably
> not even enough to support the one person you're
> sending up and the freight probably needs to 'pay the
> freight' for this thing.

It is quite sufficient. The Wright flier and those which followed were
not four person aircraft.

> I think you better plan on being able to put up at least
> 4, even if a couple of those are kids.

There will be a lot of developmental water under the bridge before kids
are on the cargo manifesto. Kid proofing a space station is non trivial
and will come much later. Initial passengers will be competent and
trained individuals.

> Plus cargo space for luggage and all supplies needed
> to sustain the group for however long they'll be up.

This can more sensibly go up on separate unmanned flights.

> > 100kg can carry enough Vectran for a habitat
> > pressure vessel in the 500m^3 range. Airlocks,
> > windows, extra shells, furnishings, etcetera, would
> > have to come up separately. Once there is a useful
> > hanger space with a large airlock, kitset assembly
> > becomes much easier, obviously this does not just
> > apply to habitat modules.
>
> What's the leak rate of Vectran with atmospheric
> pressure gas on one side and vacuum on the other?

Fairly good I think, but most inflatable designs use a separate bladder.

Pete.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Space Access Update #112 9/19/05
    ... :>> building three identical prototypes. ... :> The real question is how cheap access to LEO has to ... :It would be silly for initial prototypes not to be operational vehicles, ... :> What's the leak rate of Vectran with atmospheric ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Space Access Update #112 9/19/05
    ... :> It would be silly for initial prototypes not to be operational vehicles, ... If it cannot, letting a passenger ... :vehicle without a pilot, co-pilot and flight attendant. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Space Access Update #112 9/19/05
    ... > It would be silly for initial prototypes not to be operational vehicles, ... If it cannot, letting a passenger ... vehicle without a pilot, co-pilot and flight attendant. ...
    (sci.space.policy)