Re: Electrogravitics is Reality!


William Mook wrote:
This is pure fantasy with no basis in reality -

Waveriders are a concept for efficient supersonic transport aircraft
that operate at one speed - the speed where the supersonic wave
produces least drag. Travel at a different speed, and the drag rises
again. They are therefore unsuitable for flights at speeds
considerably below or above that efficient speed. Variable geometry
can allow a range of speeds, and that has been studied, and there are
shapes that allow a range of efficient speeds - but that range is
limited compared to a rocket launch where youhave to go from 0 mph to
18,000 mph - putting it on a rocket increases structure weight, and
with chemical rockets, its not much of a benefit.


My 'vision' a cargo hauler spaceflight with a brief R&R at Lunar City
is . . . fantasy. But it does have a basis in reality. The cargo
hauler (waverider) is buildable and the Moon can be developed as a
mining camp and way station. These are doable things, not fantasy.



Yes, waveriders were discussed as re-entry vehicles, and as the second
stage of a three stage moonship by Hawker aviation with a nuclear third
stage, but they aren't compelling unless you want a long long cruise
through the air. So a ballistic transport system or an earth based
maglev launcher might sport some sort of waverider geometry. But its
improvements in propulsion that will get you to the moon easily, not
waverider geometry.


Actually, everthing needed already exists. Waveriders exist. Maglev,
if you choose that route, exists. SSMEs and SRBs exist. It's all
there, it just has to be put together.



Its easier to pick up He3 from gas wells on Earth than go to the moon
at present. The Earth at present produces enough He3 to provide 10% of
the Earth's entire energy budget - IF WE KNEW HOW TO FUSE IT. But we
don't! so we can't! So, going to the moon to pick up He3 doesn't make
much sense until we do and make use of all the He3 we aren't using on
Earth. Storing He3 makes sense if you're optimistic about this stuff,
and when He3 can be used, you'd have more money than anyone to do
whatever you wanted.

Successful fusion of He3/Deuterium has been done at the University of
Wisconsin. I am of the belief that it produced 70% more electricity
than it consumed in maintaining it's magnetic bottle. This is why it
has be hearlded as the savior of the Earth, a clean method of producing
mega amounts of electricity.

It may not have been really big news because there is so little extant
He3 fuel avilable. The University of Wisconsin used government nuclear
spinoff He3, of which only a few pounds exist.

If He3 can be 'efficiently' collected from natural gas then this is
great. But, the Moon and other Outer Space bodies are loaded with it.
It does have to be strip mined and cooked at 600 deg C; actually 900
deg C is cook off the oxygen. So, mining and processing are required.
Can't just shovel it into the hold and rocket back to Earth.


Um... what evidence do you have that there is anti-matter to be had in
the van Allen radiation belt? If so,how much? If there is anti-matter
in the Van Allen belt, how would having a bottle trap any? How do you
figure the amounts? What is the sweep area, sweep speed, and density?
I know nothing about this, but if you're picking up 5 billion dollars
worth of energy - at 100 MJ per dollar that's 500 million billion
joules of energy - that's 5.5 kg of anti-matter - or the equivalent of
82 million barrels of crude oil.


NASA thinks it's there and are getting ready to try and collect some.
I wish them success. This could be a really big energy find!


You'd encounter the inner belt at about 1000 miles and be through it in
3000 miles. The outer belt would be hit in about 9000 miles and you'd
be through it by about 12000 miles.

At 1 gee constant acceleration (starting at 2 gees accelerating force
on the Earth's surface and falling off as 1/r2 distance - giving a
geometrical acceleration of 1 gee) - you'd hit the inner van allen belt
in about 9 minutes and be through it 7 minutes later. Continuing at 1
gee you'd hit the outer van Allen belt 28.6 minutes after lift off and
be through it in 4.4 minutes.

Your total collection time is 11.4 minutes. 684 seconds. That's how
long you have to collect 5.5 KILOGRAMS of anti matter.

How big is your sweeper that you use to fill your magnetic bottle? 1
sq ft ? 10 sq ft? 100 sq ft? 1000 sq ft?


The 'sweeper' is an interesting problem. Perhaps forcefields of some
kind. I wonder what NASA has up their sleeve.


If anti-matter is so dense you can sweep up 12 pounds of it with
something smaller than your typical ranch house as you fly through it
on your way to the moon - then there's more energy in the van Allen
belt in the form of anti-matter than exists in all the He3 on the moon.
After all, you're collecting 82 million barrels of crude equivalent in
the form of anti-matter in the 12 minutes it takes to fly through the
van allen belt - and you're waiting a week and a half on the moon to
collect your He3.

That much anti matter circling Earth would mean spacecraft flying
through a van Allen belt with THAT much anti-matter would vaporize in a
matter of minutes! You'd notice the flash!


Especially if you were inside the spacecraft! Since the Van Allen
Belts have been penetrated by ordinary spacecraft it must not exist in
densities that require special shielding. One possibility is that
'sweeper' will be in orbit and constantly 'sweep' until enough is
collected then a spaceship will go in and collect the antimatter
'honey' a lot like bees collecting pollen.


Why fool with He3 at all? We know how to turn anti-matter into energy.
We don't know how to do it with He3 yet.

This, I believe, is false. See my remarks above on He3 fusion at the
University of Wisconsin.

And, with antimatter, collection is the problem.


And, while a few thousand anti-protons have been captured in penning
traps of late, there are no magnetic bottles that I would trust to hold
the 82 million barrels worth of energy! That'd be quite a pop if it
ever went off - and would pose a helluva threat if someone decided to
set it off in anger.. So, don't count on being welcomed back to your
home planet with it without some serious paper work being done.

NASA are the R&D people. That is why their budget is fairly large and
they have such extensive research and test facilities. And it is,
moreover, a little scary to think of any significant amount of
antimatter bottled up on this planet. The storage and use of
antimatter might best be done in Outer Space. Perhaps in orbit outside
the Earth-Moon system. Quite a ways out.


Finally, there is no lunar city hotel on the moon at present, and He3
doesn't just load itself. If you are postulating a date in the future
when such things as He3 mines and lunar hotels exist, why wouldn't the
people who are there charge you a goodly portion of your 45 billion
dollars to do all the work while you kick back? THAT makes the least
sense of all. I mean why wouldn't a woman own the interplanetary
supertanker and watch you while you bring her drinks and she cavorts
with the ladies? Sheez.


I am aware that things cost money. In business you look at gross
profits, and net. I never said that the 45 billion dollars would be
net. But to net 1 billion dollars per mission, every 3 or 4 months,
isn't too bad! It will buy pretzels and beer.


Why not just say you'll waltz into downtown Um Dasr, kick back with a
beer while someone loads your supertanker with 2 million barrels of
Iraqi crude that's just sitting in the ground there, and then you'll
cruise on back around the Horn and across the Atlantic, and unload your
oil in New York while you kick back there and collect $150 million cash
- no problem - ????

THAT'S EASIER AND TECHNICALLY MORE FEASIBLE THAN WHAT YOU HAVE JUST
DESCRIBED.


I'll build a supertanker for 2 billion dollars, upfront. One that can
ride any tidal wave it encounters. Any takers?


Hell, if you can build an interplantary cargo hauler and do all you
say, why not pick up a used supertanker and run oil from the middle
east? Thing is, interplanetary fantasies are not constrained by
reality yet, so they're fun to think about. But that doesn't feed the
bulldog or pay the bills son.


The waverider cargo hauler is not fantasy. It can be built right now
using current technology. Someone just has to do it.


tomcat

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