Re: National Space Intelligence Center proposed

Hyper wrote:

American wrote:
William Mook wrote:
At some point the commercial sector will supersede the civilian,
military, and intelligence sectors in space development. When that
happens, we have to make sure that the commercial developments don't
come back to bite us in the ass as a nation, or a world. After all, a
colony in the asteroid belt could quite easily reduce the surface of
the Earth to molten slag while remaining beyond the reach of Earth's
military might.

Hyper wrote:

Please someone get on the line with the Men in Black now, now, NOW !
And get Captain Kirk out of retirement too.

Nice attempt at pulling a rabbit out of a hat - next trick?

Oh, come now, gentlemen, it's a little more complicated than that!
Surely, the earth is no prison detainee central from which all must
report to before leaving the solar system! Is there no joy in your
hearts for advancing the science of propulsion to the asteroids?
Surely, you jest, William Mook! You have studied my posts closely
about the asteroid mining parts, but I wouldn't imagine that
this little NSIC proposal would have anything to do with that,
would it? However, let's assume that your case in point would
be just that - that some fledgeling colony of intrepid survi-
valists did happen upon the technology to crash an asteroid
into the earth - wouldn't that be the Wormwood that prophecy
speaks of? - And maybe that evil angel of light Satan is inside?

EEUUWWHH - methinks this has nothing to do with advancing the
wrong technology more than advancing the "needed" technology,
so why shouldn't we be altering the course of human history for
the better rather than for the worse? Let's assume that security
proposals always follow in lockstep with revolutionary techno-
logy. Would the accidental discoveries of Dynamite been in-
vented? Gravity? X-rays? Velcro? Maybe we're assuming that only
true prisoners trapped on an asteroid don't have the ingenuity
that pioneers have - therefore they rebel against the enemy
that sent them there - the whole earth. O.K. - granted - if
this was the scenario - but I don't believe that it is the
scenario or should be the scenario in the situation
just described.

Hyper wrote:

Dynamite and velcro were not "accidental" discoveries. Nobel blew a lot
of real estate before coming out with a stable enough stuff, so you
might say he vas actively looking for it. The inventor of velcro got
the ideea from thistles in his dog's fur. Gravity was not a
"discovery".

Definition of Accidental:

Inadvertant occurrance or appearing or singled out by chance.

Velcro:

http://www.scholastic.ca/titles/accidentaldiscoveries/

Nobel capitalized on what was already his accidental discovery:

http://www.nonwoven.co.uk/reports/History%20of%20Cellulosics.html

Gravity is accidental enough through gravitic research:

http://www.padrak.com/agn/

Accidental discovery of gravity shielding:

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=351

Feel the Force, and Focus!

Asteroid Mining is an issue that deserves a moratorium on the
subject, not only to educate the public, but also to prove that
there is a genuine need to explore "our area" of the galaxy, not
only for exploiting the use of extraterrestrial resources, but
also to exhibit the need for long term research and development
in providing an external sanctuary for "earthlings" in case of
major disruptions in the earth's biosphere.


moratorium = temporary suspension/ban of an activity
"to exhibit the need for long term research" - you sure you an
American?

The actual physical project takes a few years of planning,
so this planning stage would act also as an moratorium:
Reinvent what a PAC should mean to private industry w.r.t. cutting
edge propulsion technology. Make PAC appointments conditional over
creating a more massive earth-to-orbit technology, and rider a
massive advertising campaign that would preclude any project work
being done. With the rider as a secret political "hot" button, any
reneging on either the rider or project would divert all NASA
funding into a *fail safe mode* of political blackmail for the PAC
and supporters that refuse the deal.

In order for asteroid mining to be a business and career in
itself, it would have to depend upon the exploitation of re-
sources, such as primary and precious metals, in order to
facilitate the creation of trade and resource exchanges,
such as water ice (ex. from the moon of Jupiter (Europa),
aerogel made from silica-rich regolith (moon or large aster-
oid), space mining equipment, satellite technology, and life
support systems.

Hyper wrote:

What do you need water for? Carb-chondrites can supply enough, unless
you want to terraform Venus or something. Mars or the Moon (a caveat
here) can be sources of cheaper H2O. Finally, if you're hung on Jupiter
and big moons, Calisto would be a better choice - slightly lower g. &
500 times LESS radiation from the belts.

The Mars, Moon gravity fields too strong for establishing a
supply route to the asteroids, Europa is a better source of "quick
and dirty" water ice - Callisto would require too much drilling and
filtration. Europa would therefore require less involvement in the
extraction process.

The need for making asteroid mining a profitable venture is
based on a new gold standard for the colonies of the earth,
just like it was profitable for explorers in the New World
to stake their claim for God and country!

Hyper Wrote:

Why adopt a gold standard and then dump large quantities on the market?

Because its not your market! These are the colonies of the solar
system! Besides, read the post again, idiot.

After the asteroid is mined, other uses for the asteroid could
include utilizing the mineshaft as a storage facility or habitat
preserve in case a future in-transit rendezvous or emergency
landing was made.

Hyper wrote:

Asteroids won't be "shaft mined". Not the way you seem to think -
spitted potato style.
http://www.permanent.com
http://science.howstuffworks.com/asteroid-mining.htm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0201328194/qid=1148824584/sr=2-1/ref...

I never said they would, did I? Assuming a single X-ray per molecule of

65.122 KeV X-rays, with 1 mole of platinum equaling 195.09 grams,
converting to kcal we have:

((65.122)(1.602 x 10-16) / (4200 x 195.09 grams / 6.023 x 1023 atoms )
= 7668.64 times the energy required for transmission. This also means
that the incidental X-ray will penetrate the metal up to 7668 molecules

deep. Phased Bragg Planes will transmit radiation at the incidental
wavelength of 0.190381 angstroms, from the above chart. The X-ray
penetration thickness of the pure metal would be the interatomic
distance of 9(pi)Z/4 (from Electronic Structure and the Properties
of Solids, Walter A. Harrison, 'Solid State Table of the Elements')
x 7668(10-10m) = 4.227 x 10-3meters, or 4.227mm. Therefore, no shaft
mining, except for habitat preserve or storage facility.

The problem with you, Hyper, is that WE are not on the same wavelength.

The feasibility of mining an asteroid is multi: First of all,
we need a way to react quickly to an incoming asteroid if the
need arises. For that to happen, we need nuclear space propulsion
systems "on" and "outside" of high earth orbit for the Hohmann
transfer, as well for establishing a base on the surface of
an asteroid.

Hyper wrote:

Hohmann orbits are minimal energy ones, hence not suitable for
"quick" missions.

*High-eccentricity targets require Hohmann transfers, and a short
mining season at aphelion* The problem is in scheduling the
rendevous, not "how fast" the rendevous occurs!

Secondly, regarding the exploitation of mineral resources, that
if there was more of a need for macroeconomic ripples, you are
allowed to disagree if you believe that the Federal Reserve sets
the rates for platinum, which it would not if the privateers are
the ones who set the price in the first place. Just because there
is "policing" or "fear" that greed will run amok on earth is no
reason to believe that the privateers are a bunch of pirates,
either. You can arbitrarily set the price of platinum as low as
you want, so the resource for platinum will then just "dry up"
without replenishment." All this means is that outside of earth
orbit, there are advantages to being closer to where the mining
takes place.

Hyper wrote:

pri-va-teer (prie vuh teer') n.
1. a privately owned ship commissioned to
fight or harass enemy ships.
2. the captain or a crew member of such a
vessel.

Does private industry harass you? How about this:
Article I of Congress states: "You may, by force of arms, attack,
subdue, and take all Ships and other Vessels belonging to the
inhabitants ..." Are YOU the enemy?


Perhaps most importantly, there are those that believe that the
earth is moving into a pole shift during the years following 2001.
The shift starts out gradual at first, and then becomes more
pronounced after a few years. What this means is that our Sun
is moving through the galactic plane into the oppositely charged
side of the galaxy. This occurs every 25,000 years. When a pole
shift occurs, the molten, metallic core of the earth tries to
shift its position. As a result, there are an increase in volca-
noes, earthquakes, and sunspot activity. The effects could be
catastrophic. Asteroid mining technology could provide us with
a way off the planet and to the stars in order to escape the
cataclysm, if it was to occur.

With some sort of extraterrestrial economic infrastructure in
place, the extraterrestrial environment becomes self sustaining,
and competition between the cost of earth-to-orbit and colony
raw materials, goods, and services creates a trade to be established
between the colony and earth orbit. Therefore, the colonies
automatically become self-sustaining and progressively separated.
It is surmised that only with an improvement in the fidelity of
electronic communications and supply of environmental resources
between earth based, orbital, and interplanetary trading partners,
can a healthy economy of extraterrestial infrastructure be
maintained. Without these direct communications between resource
trading partners, the earth becomes progressively monitored and
controlled thru excessive marginalization of profits by the
establishment of trade laws between international bureaucracies.


Yet just short of planetary revolution, the law of supply and
demand in an extraterrestrial economy will help to create
incrementally affordable modes of communication and transportation.
At this point in the trade of resources and technology, the law of
supply and demand dictates that both earthly and extraterrestrial
environments cannot become isolated from each other, as this may
result in diminishing resources, marginalized competition, trade
imbalances, scandal, and environmental disaster.


Naturally, there are obstacles concerning the bootstrapping of
asteroid mining. Lack of economic focus for a long term research
and development plan for implementing a much cheaper earth-to-
orbit technology with massive lifting capacity for a no-holes-
barred rush into the solar system; general ignorance of the
government, public, and private institutions at large about
technologies that revolutionize space transportation, providing
an awesome opportunity for expanding the free market economy
towards stellar regions of the galaxy; opening up an awareness
for reestablishing the gold standard as the benefit for adopting
trading partners within the solar system, as well as providing a
new system of financial credit between those trading partners.


So how is it that our vision has become so shortsighted, as
described by the current NSIC program? I contend that my original
statement regarding upgrading private enterprise (RLV's) to
competitive status with NASA will enhance the performance of
promise markets in this field, not destroy them!


"It's time to change derbies for Stetsons and kick some mule ***!"

Hyper wrote:

Disregard previous comments - waste of time.

This is not your industry to be concerned.

"Thair's nuthin better than a healthy bitch slappin to make
the world go round!"

.