Re: Space exploration for the rest of us

jacob navia <jacob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> jacob navia <jacob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:>
:> :Jeff Findley wrote:
:>
:> :3) Even a small "moon base" project requires an enormous expense.
:> : You have to send HEAVY equipment to excavate the moon base
:> : and bury it underground. If not, you have to evacuate the
:> : moon base at each solar flare, and if you are unlucky, the
:> : astronauts are killed when trying to reach earth.
:>
:> Ever been to Kansas? They have these things called tornado cellars.
:> You see, everyone knows that Kansas is uninhabitable because it is so
:> hard to build a house that will withstand a tornado. And yet, oddly
:> enough, people manage to survive in Kansas just fine.
:>
:> The same approach works just fine on the moon. You just need enough
:> heavily shielded space for people to take shelter in during solar
:> storms. The rest of the time they can go live in their houses and
:> grow wheat ... uh, go live in the main base and do their jobs.
:>
:
:That was what I am saying. You have to bury yourself to
:protect from radiation. This is (of course) VERY easy to do.

Yes, it is.

:You have to transport heavy machinery to the moon to do the
:holes in the ground, then transport the housing equipment
:and there you are, you have your moon base.

Silly. Why do you need "heavy machinery"? Regolith is pretty
lightweight stuff, all things considered, and the Moon is already full
of holes, there are doubtless lots of caves that could be used (or
blast them out and use them).

:This means that you must design a earth-moon transporter, i.e.
:a vehicle for transporting heavy equipment to the moon,
:you have to design the equipment, you have to test it, package it,
:transport it to the moon, send big crews to unpack it,
:work with it, etc etc. Those crews will not have any
:shelter so better they avoid solar storms if not they
:get fried.

Poppy***. Take an inflatable. Blast a hole in the surface. Drop in
your inflatable. Inflate. Cover it with dirt. Voila. Storm
shelter.

:I am not saying that this is impossible. Just that the
:current plans provide not the slightest HINT that something
:like this (building of a space infrastructure) is at all
:in the works.

You are, however, trying very hard to exaggerate the difficulty beyond
all reason.

:> :4) Space radiation is deadly without adequate shielding. A moon
:> : base project needs to get completely underground.
:>
:> Poppy***! This is the same as your 3) and the same answer applies.
:
:Yes, and the same problems that I explained apply here too!

And the same simple solutions apply.

:> :5) Since artificial gravity is impossible in the moon, we
:> : are assuming that bone loss does NOT happen in moon gravity
:> : what is probably FALSE.
:>
:> Who told you artificial gravity was impossible on the moon? Hell, you
:> can generate artificial gravity here on Earth. Just build a track
:> banked for a 2-g turn, hop in your car, and voila - 2 g artificial
:> gravity.
:
:Nice. Well, nothing is impossible, it is just that to do that
:in the moon that track must be underground, and the hole must be big
:enough to hold a track + associated equipment. This is as (3) above
:not impossible but absolutely not planned and at the moment just
:a sheer phantasy.

Why do you think it needs to be underground? You only need to be
underground during storms. You can start with a small exercise track,
just as is currently don't in space.

:> :6) Any serious planetary exploration is impossible since humans
:> : are unfit for the trip, not to mention to withstand the
:> : harsh conditions in the target planet. All known planets are
:> : utterly hostile to human life. Yes, this can be solved by
:> : artifical gravity+shielding but the mass of the spaceship becomes
:> : staggering. Thousands of tons at least.
:>
:> Ridiculous assertion. And if things are as bad as you say, cancel
:> space science. If we're not going we don't need it.
:
:Well, I have a different view of science and exploration. I am
:not the "gee whiz" type of person, I do not like TV shows, but
:I do like the sheer beauty of exploration, of discovery that only
:science can give.

Great. Crack open YOUR wallet....

:> :No one, neither NASA nor anyone else has any solution for this problems
:> :yet. Those are REAL showstoppers.
:>
:> Hogwash! Again, anyone willing to apply a little thought can start
:> down the road to solutions to your "REAL showstoppers".
:>
:> If they're indeed "REAL showstoppers", then let's stop the show. Shut
:> down NASA and the entire space science budget. It will never be
:> useful because going is impossible.
:
:Who cares about going "in person". We have our machines, that can
:transport our eyes and hands.

Just about everyone who pays the bill cares about sending people.
Their interest in sending toasters is limited to gathering data in
order to send people behind them.

No bucks, no Buck Rogers. And that applies to sending machines to
keep you happy.

:Instead of sending all this TONS of equipment to the moon, we
:can send a rover that will gather the same data, discover the SAME
:things as a human, and do it for 1/1000 of the cost.

Hogwash.

:The distance
:to the moon is so small, that you can drive a vehicle in real
:time from earth. The time-lag is just 2 seconds. So you would be able
:to control that vehicle very finely, without any risks to you.

Let me suggest an experiment for you. Get a pair of radios and take a
jeep out into some rough and unknown terrain. Put a 2 second delay in
the radio circuit. Put on a blindfold and get in the jeep. Try to
drive by having your friend give you directions over the radio while
observing via cameras mounted on the jeep with a similar delay in
reception of the picture.

Make sure your health insurance is in effect before you start.

:The moon base could be setup NOW at costs approx 1 billion.
:True Lockheed Martin would earn much less, (probably nothing)
:since there is no need to develop anything. Just use some
:rocket already built, JPL to build the rover, and you are all
:set. Energy is plenty in the moon, solar panels would give
:much more than in Mars, no wind or dust in the atmosphere to
:cope with, no seasons, a robot could be operational for
:a decade without any problems. You put a dozen of those
:and you can explore the moon without any problems.

It's not a 'base' with no people.

:WHY DO WE NEED TO SEND HUMANS?

Because we're humans, not toasters.

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney
.

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