Re: Yet Another Roswell Thread

On 11 Jul, 16:55, eina...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 Jul, 16:24, simberg.interglo...@xxxxxxxxx (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:17:20 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker <ianpark...@xxxxxxxxx> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On 9 Jul, 13:03, simberg.interglo...@xxxxxxxxx (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:29:12 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker <ianpark...@xxxxxxxxx> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On 6 Jul, 08:12, dumpst...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
The deathbed confession of Lt. Walter Haut has revived the Roswell
debate. See:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21994224-2,00.html

As I keep on saying he is a DISINFORMER. Off his own bat or prompted I
just don't know. In view of some of the things I read I can believe
just about anything.

ET will have made interstellar journeys with AI or not at all.

<laughing at Ian's monomania>

Yes, of course. It's not possible to do anything without AI. Just
look at the world around us.

What is your route to interstellar traval Rand.

I don't claim to have a route to interstellar travel. Any more than I
claim to "have a patent," or have asked you for a hundred million
dollars. Again, you're just making things up.

I don't have to have a route to interstellar travel to point out that
your contention is completely unsupported.

The history of space travel is completely unamiguous on this point.
Unmanned exploration reaches places where manned exploration cannot
go. Question - how much intelligence do you need to make a particular
trip. I have said that at LEO all you really need is telepresence -
the only AI you need is a transfer function. The Moon is 2.5 secs,
hence the challenge to maintain a ccar with a 2.5 sec delay.

The nearest star is a double journey of 8 years. This requires real
AI, real decision making capability, otherwise the whole thing is
impossible.

My proposal for interstellar travel is basically the Forward proposal
with AI guiding the spacecraft. Possibly if we had real
miniaturization antimatter might be used in the deceleration phase.
One thing though is clear to me. Only automatic equipment could
possibly survive the journey.

Warp drive - that is
the only alternative. What else is there, an ark where a large number
of generations make an interstellar trip? - piffle!

If it is impossible to develop AI then interstellar travel is
impossible. End of story.

No, just unsupported nonsense.

Most scientists would not go so far as to support Kurzweil all the
way, but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would
put interstellar travel before AI.

- Ian Parker

Mind you, I´m not really interested in this alien this and alien that,
if they are around they are being pretty coy about it.

What struck me was the following you said "Only automatic equipment
could possibly survive the journey" which appears to indicate you are
discounting the possibillity for manned interstellar travel, as you
claim must really be on that score as well.

That sounds to me to be a strong case of pessimism. Mind you, I´m
avare of the threat posed by cosmic rays. I simply don´t think the
radiation problem to be completelly insurmountable for all time. I
really expect a solution to arrive some time during this century, as
long as we get around doing something about the problem.

In addition, if you are suggesting that impacts with sand grains are
going to prove to hasardous risk at close to relativistic speeds, it´s
conceivable to go slower and thus to accept longer travelling times.
Mind you, at something less than 1% of lightspeed, only frosen zygots
could travel, the craft or seedship needing to be AI operated for
sure.

My remarks about grains of sand were not in the context of
interstellar travel they were in the context of space debris. My
belief is that the untrammeled arms race proposed by the US is could
make the space environment unsustainable. I advaocate mobile phone
masts for navigation because we just cannot afford to take that risk.

Even so. I am not sure about whether a manned interstellar flight is
possible. Such a flight would be for colonization only and would be
preceeded by unmanned flights. There is no evidence of any attempt at
colonization.

A manned flight would be very very very far into the future. I
personally believe they would construct their bodies using some sort
of artificial womb and DNA at the destination, but I cannot be sure.

If you really want to discuss this properly I suggest you and I might
set up a MODERATED discussion group. I am fed up to the back teeth
with both Fred McCall and Rand Simberg. It is bad enough being called
an idiot when you are wrong.

Fred McCall is priceless. I do a calculation as it would be done in
Bac. What do you have in Iceland? Some version of bacculariat I'll be
bound. He says "Rubbish". He now expects me to take him seriuoly. He
says I take things out of context. He does not seem to expect me to
take these things personally or lying down.


- Ian Parker

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Yet Another Roswell Thread
    ... Ian Parker wrote: ... discounting the possibillity for manned interstellar travel, ... I am not sure about whether a manned interstellar flight is ... robotic seedship in the first plase. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Yet Another Roswell Thread
    ... Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in ... I don't claim to have a route to interstellar travel. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Yet Another Roswell Thread
    ... Ian Parker wrote: ... Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in ... I don't claim to have a route to interstellar travel. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Yet Another Roswell Thread
    ... Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in ... I don't claim to have a route to interstellar travel. ...
    (sci.space.policy)