Re: Space travel by humans is not possible now

On Jan 25, 6:07 am, Ian Parker <ianpark...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 24 Jan, 18:04, Einar <eina...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 24, 5:54 am, Ian Parker <ianpark...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 23 Jan, 21:08, Einar <eina...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 23, 2:44 pm, jacob navia <ja...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Einar wrote:

This Mars talk is mostly hypothetical, as a Mars mission is very
unlikely to occur within the next 30 years.

But if we take examples from Earth, Eskimoes could achieve fairly
reasonable temperatures within iglooes...where the temperatures were
as bad as - 50C. Now, a hypothetical Mars dvelling might be dug down a
bit, say halfway down, then the remainder covered with material taken
from the surrounding ground.

It sounds reasonable that such a low tech approach can achieve pretty
reasonable degree of protection from the environment. Then add in
hightech equipment to close the loop.

Yes, underground the temperature can be higher. But -80 to -100
are normal night time temperatures.

And the problem is that this approach doesn't work with *vehicles*

--
jacob navia
jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
logiciels/informatiquehttp://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

Well, Eskimoes could live in - 50C within theyr snow houses. With
modern tech thrown in, we undoubtedly can do better than that.

It´s also somtimes cold on the Moon, when in shadow. I recall they did
make some use of rovers up there in the early 70s. What you need is a
spacesuit, with comparable heating/cooling capability. The rover could
charge the suit while the astronaut is aboard.

However, the main obstackle to long term operation may be radiation.

One factor we tend to be losing sight of is the rapid advance of
robotics. If the consensus is that there will not be a manned landing
on Mars for 30 years at least, one asks oneself where robotics will be
at that point. I think there is a real danger that we will plan a trip
to Mars and then find out as the years advance that it isn't really
worthwhile anyway.

- Ian Parker

In about 10 years the next generation of 'intelligent robotic
explorers' ought to be operational, i.e. those who will be about as
intelligent as insects.

Perhaps in 30 - 40 years intelligent robots may have advanced up to
the intelligence of a dog, perhaps.

Perhaps pryor to the end of this century we will see robots
approaching our intellect.

I don't think the criterion should be the level of intellect. What we
want for space is manual dexterity. The high level decisions about
what to explore and why can be taken on Earth.

To me the overiding objective is the use of the resources of space. To
do that you need a manufacturing capability. Ants and bees are
perfectly capable of building quite complex structes and indeed the
genus of wasps, bees and ants, I forget the biological name are
capable of building quite complex social structures. A queen regulates
by chemistry rather than deep intellect, but a system of organization
is there.

- Ian Parker

Most certainly people are aiming for processes that can be largelly
automated, but largelly still indicates human supervision, but robots
doing 99% of the tasks.

Within the Earth/Moon space teleoperation is practical, so supervisers
don´t need to be nearby, only within couple of lightseconds distance.

In the relative near future my expectation is that most human space
operations will be concentrated within the Earth/Moon system. The
operations in relation to an international Moon base would likevice
mostly be automated or robotized, but there would be humans on the
scene.

The Moon would be among other an ideal testenvironment for advanced
robotic construction projects, that will be essential once human
operations expand beyond the Earth/Moon system.

Einar
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Space travel by humans is not possible now
    ... reasonable temperatures within iglooes...where the temperatures were ... on Mars for 30 years at least, one asks oneself where robotics will be ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: Space travel by humans is not possible now
    ... reasonable temperatures within iglooes...where the temperatures were ... on Mars for 30 years at least, one asks oneself where robotics will be ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Extreme Planet Takes Its Toll on the Mars Rovers
    ... Like Sun Belt retirees who complain about cold weather, NASA's Mars ... rovers are becoming less tolerant of temperature changes with age. ... Temperatures often differ by more than 100 degrees Celsius. ... This chart shows degrees C. on the left-hand axis and degrees F. on ...
    (sci.space.news)
  • Re: Space travel by humans is not possible now
    ... reasonable temperatures within iglooes...where the temperatures were ... jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr ... on Mars for 30 years at least, one asks oneself where robotics will be ...
    (sci.space.policy)