Re: Retooling the Vision for Space Exploration

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:50:42 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Willie.Mookie@xxxxxxxxx made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

On Feb 29, 11:36 am, simberg.interglo...@xxxxxxxxx (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:12:38 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

Good white Christian soldiers rousted people from their homes for
which they had a deed for, and had organized a government to protect,
that was recognized in documents signed by the Federal government.
This was done in the dead of winter, putting them on a forced march
through a blizzard with laggards being shot, and then those same good
Christians gave smallpox infected blankets to those who made it.

That's a myth.

Got references?

http://www.bradley.edu/las/eng/lotm/TrailofTears/trailparent.htm
http://www.cherokeebyblood.com/trailtears.htm

Without reading the links, is there anything in there about giving
them smallpox-infected blankets?

That's what I was referring to.

That isn't the soul of Christian kindness.   It was done in the name
of racial purity.

What's your point?  I never said anything about Christian kindness.

By implication you did - repeating myths of your own about supposed
Indian savagery as if that prove their culture had nothing of
substance to contribute to Americna culture.

The point wasn't that their culture had nothing to contribute. My
point was that their culture was bloody, and the notion that adopting
it would have somehow precluded wars was lunacy, absent any actual
arguments as to why it would have done so.

We don't have to look further than the Spanish inquisition to find
people being flayed alive in the name of Christ and put to the torch
in the name of Christ.

I missed the part where I was defending the Spanish Inquisition.  Can
you provide a citation?

You recounted myths about supposed Indian savagery as fact and called
it charming - ina way that suggested Indian culture had nothing to
contribute to the obviously more civilized American culture. So, it
is quite reasonable to point out that American culture draws heavily
on European history, and the Spanish Inqisition and other episodes of
violence and terror are part of that history.

American, if you mean US, has drawn almost nothing from the Spanish
Inquisition, or European history. If you want to see cultures that
have done that, you have to look south of the border. US culture is
largely Anglo Saxon. The US is part of, and the leading member of,
the Anglosphere. It is very different from the culture of Europe.

You fail to see the point now, but seemed to be making one when you
recounted horror myths surrounding the Indian culture.
.
None of this makes Christianity itself evil.

I didn't say it did.

You implied that Indian culture was evil by your statement

Again, I implied that it was silly to claim that by incorporating it,
we would have avoided wars or violence, which seemed to be your nutty
claim.

The fact remains it is an historical fact that the US did not honor
the agreements we hed with the Native Americans, told lies about them
to justify our treatment of them, and treated them miserably to the
point of war without cause and isolated outselves from them out of
fear and was thus denied the very real contributions to our culture
they could have made.

And what contributions woulld those have been?

See? You know nothing about the culture except horror myths every
bit as questionable as the fact that US soldiers purposely spread
smallpox throughout native American tribes to reduce their numbers.
You presume they're a bunch of ignorant savages having nothing of
substance to contribute to modern culture or life.

I know many things about them, but we still await your substantiation
of your nutty claim.

There is no multi-culturalism implicit in our founding documents.

I suggest you read this from the United States Declaration of
Independence

I've done so, many times.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish
it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall
seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

How in the world does that support multi-culturalism? It certainly
doesn't support (just as one example) Islam.

Multi-culturalism is currently destroying Europe.

That's because there's no real solution - which would have been
created in America had the Sioux claims in Georgia been honored by
Jackson.

I submit that it is the western reaction to the challenges of multi-
culturaism that is destroying Europe. That fear of multiculturism is
destroying Europe. That lack of understanding and a valid model is
destroying Europe.

The lack of understanding that Europe must embrace sharia law is
destroying Europe?

You're nuts.
.

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