Re: Retooling the Vision for Space Exploration

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:46:16 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Willie.Mookie@xxxxxxxxx made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

On Feb 29, 9:08 pm, simberg.interglo...@xxxxxxxxx (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:50:42 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:





On Feb 29, 11:36 am, simberg.interglo...@xxxxxxxxx (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:12:38 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

Good white Christian soldiers rousted people from their homes for
which they had a deed for, and had organized a government to protect,
that was recognized in documents signed by the Federal government.
This was done in the dead of winter, putting them on a forced march
through a blizzard with laggards being shot, and then those same good
Christians gave smallpox infected blankets to those who made it.

That's a myth.

Got references?

http://www.bradley.edu/las/eng/lotm/TrailofTears/trailparent.htm
http://www.cherokeebyblood.com/trailtears.htm

Without reading the links, is there anything in there about giving
them smallpox-infected blankets?

Actually reading factual stuff is harder than repeating canards? lol.

You're the one repeating canards.

Unless there is a confession of insiders, no secret operation leaves
evidence to indict those who organized it. You know this, hence your
insistence on 'evidence' that you know cannot exist. So, you call it
myth. The evidence however is clear. Having lost about half their
number,due to european diseases for which they were ill prepared, the
native Americans were forced to re-locate into the Westward frontiers
and remain isolated as their numbers declined. When the germ theory
of disease was discovered, do-gooders went West to innoculate native
Americans. Other experts estimated that one half to one third of the
original population of native Americans would ultimately survive. In
response, the US government reversed its decisions related to
isolating native Americans,signed legislation to attract the poor and
destitute to the frontier (at the time they were thought to be
harbingers of disease) and trade goods that were innocuoous for
generations (people in European style settlements - in close proximity
with poor public hygiene transmit disease) - turned strangely toxic.

That's what I was referring to.

In other words, you can't substantiate your claim that there was a
deliberate policy to give infected blankets to the Indians.

Yeah, I know, and I know that the 'myth' as you call it was the result
of a secret operation - and that such operations leave no evidence you
would not call myth. Obviously the statistics speak for themselves.

This is loonytune land.

That isn't the soul of Christian kindness. It was done in the name
of racial purity.

What's your point? I never said anything about Christian kindness.

By implication you did - repeating myths of your own about supposed
Indian savagery as if that prove their culture had nothing of
substance to contribute to Americna culture.

The point wasn't that their culture had nothing to contribute.

That is a prejudice based on ignorance.

I see that you can't read.

My
point was that their culture was bloody,

The lies told by Europeans about native American culture, the lies you
repeat here, seemed bloody.

So tales of Indian torture, of each other, and of others are nothing
but lies and propaganda? There was no human sacrifice in Mexico and
Central America? Before the evil white man came, all was peace and
harmony in the Americas?

and the notion that adopting
it would have somehow precluded wars was lunacy,

No it isn't. The defeat of Switzerland in the Swabian war in the 16th
century led to a situation where there was a national decision to not
engage in warfare ever again. In that age, because of that defeat
Switzerland enunciated a vision for itself that did not involve
warfare. Defense yes. Warfare no. It has lived in peace ever since
- despite wars throughout the Swiss Empire prior to that time.

By the same token, defeat at the hands of the Europeans, the Europeans
being white, and the White Maiden/White Buffalo as the bringer of
mystical power, and the corruption of those warriors who looked upon
the White Maiden with lust, combined with the pandemics caused by
European diseases in native American communities - all led to a
similar sort of insight in native American culture. Despite the
breast beating of wannabe American heroes, native Americans pretty
much did what they were told. This too was used to indict them. When
they stood up for themselves and their culture, they savages. When
they did what they were told, they were worthless ignorant excuses for
men. When they explained their reasoning, they were supertitious
primitives.

Had American culture embraced native American culture and saw the
value in it, and in the people - as some intellectuals of the time did
- our culture would be quite different indeed. Just as Switzerlands
history is quite different than that of the rest of Europe.

absent any actual
arguments as to why it would have done so.

Well, I've given you the facts above.

You've given me a lot of what you believe to be facts. We are still
awaiting something resembling an actual argument to support your claim
that had we adopted native cultures we would have avoided the Civil
War.

If you want to see cultures that
have done that, you have to look south of the border.

You're a racist fool.

If you believe that a culture is a race, then you're the fool.

You see the word Spanish and you think it has
some racial connotation.

No, I don't.

US culture is
largely Anglo Saxon.

The Peterborough Chronicle contains information about the history of
England after the Norman Conquest.

it relates the events of The Anarchy in England. It is a highly
moving account of torture, fear, confusion, and starvation.

Of course it was. I never claimed that England didn't have a bloody
history, so once again, you toss in a non-sequitur.

<snip rest of irrelevant lunacy that I don't even have time to read
carefully>
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Myths of British Ancestryncestry is wrong
    ... Philip Deitiker skrev: ... a Native Asian group or a Native American group. ... cultural overlap with hispanic culture and native american ... ES - Here a cairn, there a cairn, old McDonald had a cairn ... ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Retooling the Vision for Space Exploration
    ... of disease was discovered, do-gooders went West to innoculate native ... generations (people in European style settlements - in close proximity ... substance to contribute to Americna culture. ... native American tribes by Europeans a series of religious insights ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Erosion by Lon S> Cohen
    ... by the spirits of his Native American mythology. ... The story is about a Native American, ... various characters gather from places as close as the ... American culture is weaved through the motivation of the characters as ...
    (rec.arts.books)
  • Erosion
    ... by the spirits of his Native American mythology. ... The story is about a Native American, ... various characters gather from places as close as the ... American culture is weaved through the motivation of the characters as ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: Why only crap in this NG? (was Wolter claims ...)
    ... by the pictural records her ancestry is clear. ... areas and were discriminated against in white culture, ... The thing about history is that it is recorded, ... At every instance european and their derivatives seem ...
    (sci.archaeology)