Re: Retooling the Vision for Space Exploration

On Mar 2, 11:32 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
All very interesting stuff, especially that of your "list of known
secret societies" that oddly managed to exclude our Federal Reserve
banking cartel, of which may also reflect upon why JFK was
exterminated in addition to foiling his intentions of having to pull
the NASA/Apollo plug.  

The list was of collegiate societies - which were quite important in
the 19th century as college attendance was rare in America at that
time. Your other outlandish speculations serve only to marginalize
the idea of a conspiracy to kill
JFK and RFK - and when the assasins read it - they breathe a sigh of
bemused relief.

We should always be clear what we know, and what is reasonable, and
what might be, but is not reasonble given what we know, and what is
lunacy born of deep seated emotional need (we all have it).

There's also our own kind as having been
snookered and dumbfounded into causing multiple rounds of global
inflation,

Your insistence that people are fools being led around by the nose is
idiotic. The folks that are attempting to massage the global
information environment for their own purposes are many - and their
influence on the psyche of humanity on balance marginal. The impact
on events can be large in specific ways when need be - especially when
backed by use of deadlyforce - but theneed for secrecy is itself a
limit. The present challenge in such operations is seamless
transition from public to private (secret) and back as needed. this
is made easier by use of the computer, and the cultural changes such
as acceptance of the sound bite, and abandoning any deep analysis.
Though the void is felt - people rarely can figure out why that is.

Now, I am sympathetic to what you say partly because you seem to have
come to understand on your own, an essential or noble truth - namely,
that life is what Buddhists refer to as Dukka - or suffering brought
about by false beliefs. You rail against those you wrongly believe
are the source of false beliefs.

This is an essential truth in all religions. So, this is a deep
insight. Christ said - forgive them Father for they know not what
they do. The Old Testament Ecclesiastes 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith
the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity

Where you err is to think that some evil cabal or agency or society is
responsible for this sort of suffering. You are placing the problem
where it is not, and angry at a cruel world that would abuse you so.
This is just more Dukka - lol. Dukka of Hazard! lol. The error is
coming from YOU - and from all of us. If anything, an effective
secret society navigates the Dukka that's out there to achieve their
ends. It is beyond the ability of any one such agency or group of
agencies to create all the bull*** out there. The bull*** comes
from life itself. Life is hard for that reason - and doesn't get any
easier until we take responsibility for our minds.

As far as the value of the US currency. You give too much credit
again. Its all a matter of adhering to a gold standard. When we
don't we have a fiat currency, and the value of that currency falls.
When we adhere to gold, or some external commodity, then, the value of
the currency is stable. A stable currency means stable predictable
values. That translates to low interest rate, and the ability to
accumulate large amounts of productive capital, which means a better
standard of living for everyone.

As the Treasury itself says - a dollar from 1767 to 1913 was worth 25
times the value of a dollar in 2006. That's because it was tied to
the value of Gold. Whenver the government issued fiat currency during
the major wars - the value of the currency fell, and then recovered as
the market absorbed the loss. The notion that industry could
actually make money from warfare came about after the Civil War
experience.

Change in banking practices in 1913 attempted to preserve the RELATIVE
value of US currency versus foreign currencies - and hide the cost of
modern industrial warfare from the US market- which ultimately led to
the Great Depression following World War 1 -

The Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish
American War, an this resulted in various panics following the war.

Nations like Switzerland that avoided warfare altogether, never
suffered from such panics and devaluations and as a result became
world financial centers and their currency used in international
trade.

Recovery from the market panics re-established the value of the
dollar. We have yet to do that in the modern age in America. As I
said, adoption of a peaceful insight and avoiding warfare as a
national policy would have given us huge benefits in the modern age -
and allowed us to use nuclear and rocket technologies in our
marketplace. That's the connection friend..

Unfortunately, we have a fantasy that we don't need to suffer the
consequences of our actions - and believe through clever banking and
marketing we can make others pay. In the end this will merely cause
our currency to be excluded from trade as other currencies take their
place. That combined with fantasy that others will do all our dirty
work for our currency while we reap the benefit forever, is setting
the US up for the biggest fall ever. Ideologically driven policies
that ignore realities that fly in the face of the ideology - is the
source of all common mode failures and collapses of all great
empires. This is the basis of US economic downfall.

This doesn't change the fact that there is evidence that China is
positioning itself for the inevitable shift in trading patterns
following the shifts in manufacturing, farming and mining patterns,
FUNDED by the capital flows FROM the United States at the start of the
Cold War. They are doing precious little to get control of loose
nukes or terror groups - both operating on their border. There is
evidence that they are helping shape anti-US policies of these terror
groups.

That combined with their penetration of US nuclear labs, their
providing weapons to US gangs, while the US military teaches those
gangs how to use those weapons in its abortive attempt to contain
terror, while the US military teaches those gangs to efficiently
organize themselves for combat, by the Chinese accumulation of US debt
- both public and private, and the Chinese accumulation of US capital
and manufacturing know-how within their borders, all suggest their
rise and our fall will not be due ENTIRELY to our idiotic adherence to
reactionary fantasies about disparities of income! lol.

God forbid - if the US is attacked by terror nukes - it is very likely
China will orchestrate a transfer of power immediately from the US
banking system to the emerging Asian banking system - very much as the
US orchestrated the move to New York following the Vienna collapse in
the 19th century.

The US will survive such a reversal, and will prosper thereafter. The
US will however no longer be a super power. China however, will be.

This need not happen - and part of taking control of the situation is
a clear recognition - without marginalizing fantasies you are prone to
- of what the real problems are - and taking clear corrective action.

NAFTA could have helped - if we focused investment dollars in Mexico
and Canada - but details were left undone that made NAFTA a joke, and
destabilized the Mexican peso.

I gave a list of things we could do at the outset -which cost us
nothing - but would attract a large portion of the world's $40
trillion in liquid capital TO the United States.

Because of our nuclear and space proliferation policies, aerospace and
nuclear industries are the only things we haven't taught the Japanese,
Germans, and Chinese how to build. That means, we can do the
following;

(1) Reverse the policies that are killing the USA
(2) Introduce policies that reward investing IN the USA
(3) Embrace Mexico and Canada - as a preferred North American
trading zone
(4) End our reliance on military and disparity of income - focus on
defense.
(5) Embrace motivation rather than ability
(6) Maintain control of nuclear and space technology,
(7) License this technology to US/North American based companies
(8) Manufacture advanced nuclear energy systems
(9) Manufacture advanced rocket based aircraft and spacecraft
(10) Manufacture advanced robotic systems - flexible manufacturing
operate robotic systems in the US, even while employing
remote labor
(11) Develop off-world assets and resources

This will allow us to dominate the important energy, transport, and
biometric communications markets - and stabilize our currency and
allow the US to build real wealth again.


having blown trillions of our hard earned loot on behalf of
orchestrating and sustaining those mutually perpetrated cold-wars, as
well as badly spent on those many prior wars intended to take stuff
from others and to reinforce our global domination, yet otherwise your
informative rant has little to do with the future of "Retooling the
Vision for Space Exploration" that's badly past due.

Well, I was trying to answer your question. Wilson started the
current period of currency deflation with changes in the banking laws
that tried to do just as you say - make others pay for our excesses in
war. This had the desired effect, by weakening Europe and
strengthening the US, but led predictably to the Great Depression.
FDR tried to tweak things without really addressing the core issues of
currency value and gold standards - removing gold ownership from
private hands. We have three generations now that don't understand or
have any experience whatever with a currency that has any real
underlying value.

Eisenhower started the ball rolling in the current nightmare by
expanding the aid to Europe funded by Truman, to include changes in
the banking and investment law that made it easier to invest in
manufacturing in Germany and Japan than in the US. This must end.

Nixon extended this to China as he went off the Gold standard
altogether. Reagan signed legislation that ended low cost home loans
rather than do the things we needed to do to secure our currency from
continued loss in value. Today, with our nearly unilateral funding
of the War on Terror - our currency is losing 20% of its value EVERY
YEAR! The Euro has surpassed the dollar in total value in
circulation, and the Chinese Yuan is being pushed by China for
regional trade in Asia.


As I said,
I'll edit/polish and repost this one more time for good measure.

You can't hardly retool squat if everything that's in need of being
made new and improved has to remain as based entirely upon sustaining
the hocus-pocus past of intellectual illusions, and otherwise of
accepting official hype and disinformation that's intended to
primarily benefit the rich and powerful

haha... well to you someone who doesn't work for minimum wage as K-
Mart might seem wealth and powerful - but you obviously lack any sense
or understanding the range of wealth and power possible in the world.

That is, haha.. you obviously don't belong to any Country Clubs, or
get out weekends for a round of Golf, let alone annual trips to Europe
or the Carribean.

The relatively wealthy in the US are hurting every bit as much as the
working stiff. They don't know why - this is why.

(including the NASA/Apollo O-
Ring cult).  

Henry Ford was wealthy and powerful. Andrew Carnegie. George
Westinghouse. Alexander Bell. Bill Gates. Hard working bureaucrats
no matter how highly placed, working at cross purposes for politically
adrift underfunded agency are just hired hands compared to wealthy and
powerful folk.

By gratuitously throwing in this group along side the truly wealthy
and powerful you marginalise all you just said
.
However, it seems not even the all-knowing expertise of
our Willie.Moo can manage to save us from ourselves.

Nothing external to you can save you from yourself. You keep
bringing up the image of Christ on a stick. This is another deep
insight - though it seems lost on you. Christ told us the truth about
life and our relationship to God. We killed him for that. We kill
all such people. It isn't what happens in our secret societies or
agencies that do that. It is what happens in ourselves. If you want
to be saved, you've to to do the work necessary to do that. Your
behavior your character tells everyone how much effort you have put
into thinking about a thing, learning about a thing, and understanding
deeply a thing.

We don't even have to retool all that much for accomplishing Venus
with good robotics.  Doing Venus is essentially a KIS mission.

Venus has nothing to contribute to our immediate future. Ballistic
transport and nuclear light bulbs power TPV devices both made
exclusively in the US - could create a huge leap forward using updates
of 1950s era technology. Commercial GPS combined with ballistic
transport - would give the US a lock on this emerging market - before
others put up systems of their own. Beyond that, there's wireless
broadband, and telerobotics usings advanced artificial muscle
technology. There's beamed energy and powersats - which can compete
with low cost (high temp) nuclear. None of this is beyond Earth
orbit. A city on the moon and an outpost on Mars - prepare us for
asteroid mining and orbiting factories - which is about 20 years away
at best - but a strong focus on aerospace and US manufacturing IN
space - with global distribution - via GPS guided delivery vehicles
from orbit - would put the US well ahead and would allow the US to
STAY ahead and manage the character of the eventual emergence of a
wealthy global culture.

I'm rethinking the geothermally toasty environment of Venus could be
one of those trial and error applications of intelligent design, or it
could be more likely of the basic applications of ET intelligence
along with their applied physics that's simply hard at work extracting
whatever or doing their own interplanetary thing, as best they can.

I gave you a detailed analysis of how to terraform Venus in 1996. It
will take 100 to 500 years to complete, and while interesting, is of
no immediate benefit to the US or the world. An orbiting station,
supplied by asteroidal fragments, built along the lines of earth
orbiting factories - building advanced robots that allow hundreds of
people to telerobotically explore Venus - is interesting and should be
done - just as the exploration and analysis of Mercury, and the
development of powersats in orbits nearer to the sun than Mercury -
are all worthwhile goals. Yet best available evidence indicates Earth
orbiting power satellites, Earth orbiting broadband satellites, and
low-cost ballistic transport guided by GPS - provide IMMEDIATE
economic benefit in important areas. A moon city and mars base -
prepare us for travelling to the asteroid belt and returning rich
fragments to where they're needed - Earth orbit, the moon's lagrange
points, Venus orbit, and Mercury orbit - to support development of
all those worlds that are easily reached by current technology. Venus
will take 200 years to be a valuable contribution to the human
condition - though once terraformed could be a finer place than Earth
is today. The moon, mars and mercury, will take 100 years to be
important industrially, but will forever be substandard to Earth in
terms of environmental quality outside pressure vessels. Asteroids
could be brought online in 30 to 40 years. Powersats - 15 to 20 years
to surpass existing systems. Comsats telerobotics ballistic
transport nuclear light bulb - 5 years.

Folks within this anti-think-tank of Usenet

Just because people point out that you are ill-informed and crazy
doesn't make them wrong - no matter how the truth hurts.

need to appreciate that
terrestrial limited evolution is simply not the one and only
alternative,

I think most people know that. Buddhists are fond of saying 'watch
your mind' - i would urge you to do that - since you found one of the
noble truths on your own. Watch your mind. Whenever you find
yourself thinking others are dumb - think again. Its just your mind
feeling good about being superior. See? Whenever you find yourself
blaming someone or something - think again. Its just your mind not
wanting to take responsibility for itself. Whenever you are unhappy
or hurting and want to lash out - think again - until you can find a
happy, peaceful calm thought to replace it. The only thing you can
control with absolute certainty in this universe, is your mind. Its
funny is the only thing people don't want to control. lol.

This is why I keep urging you to get away from your computer and do
something cool like play guitar and fall in love and so forth. It
gets you out of your mind - so you can actually become more sane.

nor is whatever God or intelligent design the one and
only path of evolution advancing in spite of all odds.  

I don't know what this means.

However,
having some intelligent control or management over the future of ones
DNA/RNA code seems like a perfectly good plan of action, especially if
you were of an advanced enough ET that's out and about spreading the
seeds of such complex life, be it merely assisting panspermia or
directly having deposited those seeds of complex DNA/RNA to the
intended target.

I don't know what this means. The easiest thing for you to do is to
get control of your thoughts. You keep repeating the same things over
and over again - that means they're a result of some pain - a knee
jerk reaction to some frustration - dome Dukka - and you cannot see
that YOU and your thoughts are responsible for it. These statements
make no sense to anyone but you. They make sense because they get the
mind off the hook somehow. The hook is entirely imaginary, and the
mind isn't in control. So, watch your mind, get control of your
thoughts, and start creating a reality that you can live with.

In spite of what we've been told over and over by those having "the
right stuff", there's always more eye-popping and mind-blowing grief,
shock and awe to behold if into uncovering the whole truth and nothing
but the truth is the focus or intent of what honest folks are having
to share and share alike as best we can.  Physics and science is not
about each and every one of us being entirely right 100% of the time,
such as being merely 1% right about 3He/fusion is clearly 1% better
off than not having made the effort in the first place, because 1%
begets 2% and so forth until the task or goal is accomplished.

we can do fission light-bulbs today. We do not have fusion today
despite research over the past 40 years. Relying on He3 is therefore
a nonstarter. ICF with Lithium Deuteride sparked by anti-matter or
anti-matter catalyzed microfission - is however very doable today -
obviously He3 will one day be doable - but we need to organize our
plan for energy dominance using nuclear power into immediate mid-term
and long-term planning. He3 is at best mid-term.


I'd go along with the "informational associativity" / by Wallace
Wright, as an analogy of what most of these pretend atheists of Usenet
nayism continually impose as their mindset of infomercial spewed
science, that's usually on behalf of sustaining their mainstream
status quo at all cost, and without so much as any speck of remorse or
regard for whatever collateral consequences seems perfectly par for
their course of actions taken.

I don't know what this means.

SECRETS of the TEMPLE / by William Greider (an oldy but goody as of
1989)

This informative book tells a not so little story about our Federal
Reserve, and of the era when the nearly intolerable "oil shock" gouge
per gallon was only $1.25, if even available.  Energy inflation has
never been quit the same ever since that Federal Reserve orchestrated
fiasco took place.

Hmm... many books are written to marginalize ideas surrounding the
truth - in order to hide the truth. I tend not to read stuff that
blames others - but rather books that empower me to do what I want to
do.

Even the very best of educated Americans live a warm and fuzzy life of
illusions, such as having accepted our "Federal Reserve" as having
nothing whatsoever to do with anything federal, and therefore by
rights should be renamed as our entirely Private Reserve Bank.
According to the whole truth and nothing but the truth about this
"Private Reserve Bank" that's cloaked and otherwise highly benefited
as our "Federal Reserve", whereas they alone determine whatever shall
exceed or fail, be it government or private.  And to think if Hitler
were alive he'd be very much grinning from ear to ear, much like that
Cheshire Cat from Alice In Wonderland, as well as pleasing to most
every other Zionist mindset that's on the exact same global domination
page as Hitler.
. - Brad Guth

We all live in an illusion that we each create in our minds. This is
another noble truth - you fail to realize that WE choose the reality
we live in. Blaming those who attempt to shape that reality for us is
removing power from within you where all true power resides for you.

On Mar 2, 4:12 pm, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:



On Mar 2, 1:47 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 2, 7:29 am, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Mar 2, 12:52 am, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 1, 6:56 am, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

The United States would have been far wealthier today had we avoided
the Indian Wars, the Mexican American War and the Civil War.  Contrary
to popular opinion wars cause economic collapse.  The great depression
was caused by the destruction of World War 1.  The destruction of the
Civil War caused the panics of the 1870s and 1890s.  Had the US been
able to stand aside these conflicts, they would have accumulated great
wealth and power in a manner very similar to the Swiss banking system
in Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries - or in a manner very similar
to Japan in the 20th century.

You are 100% correct about those spendy and lethal wars costing us big-
time.  But war is always worth nifty profits for those already rich
and powerful, especially if feeding off both sides of the war, and
better yet if both sides are mutually perpetrating a cold-war for
profit and job security with extended benefits.
. - Brad Guth

I understand that many people believe this.  I also understand that
there are those that feel weak if others are strong.  Some of those
with this malady seek to weaken others by any means necessary to keep
their illusion of strength.  Some of those are very powerful indeed
and can and do exercise some aspects of national authority, some of
that secret.

That is, I am certain that there are a group of people who have secret
power in the world proceeding from national authority in the US and
other nations - and that they feel very good indeed about exercising
that power, and that a lot of madness has been perpetrated that way.

It's called "The Federal Reserve", of which has nothing whatsoever to
do with anything federal or otherwise governmental.

Even the very best of educated Americans (including yourself) live a
warm and fuzzy life of illusions, such as having accepted our "Federal
Reserve" as having nothing whatsoever to do with anything federal, and
therefore by rights should be renamed as our Private Reserve Bank.
According to the whole truth and nothing but the truth about this
"Private Reserve Bank" that's cloaked and otherwise highly benefited
as our "Federal Reserve", whereas they alone determine whatever shall
exceed or fail, be it government or private.  And to think if Hitler
were alive he'd be very much grinning from ear to ear, much like that
Cheshire Cat from Alice In Wonderland, as well as pleasing to most
every other Zionist mindset that's on the exact same page as Hitler.

Our supposed "Federal Reserve Bank" is very much "Skull and Bones"
associated, of which is as much Zion and Third Reich as we're going to
get without having Hitler and of his Jewish minions in charge.
. - Brad Guth- Hide quoted text -

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As usual I am mystified by your thought process and find it quite
different than the history I am familiar with.

The first dollar coins issued by the United States Mint were of the
same size and composition as the Spanish dollar and even after the
American Revolutionary War the Spanish and U.S. silver dollars
circulated side by side in the United States. The coinage of various
English colonies also circulated. The lion dollar was popular in the
Dutch New Netherland Colony (New York), but the lion dollar also
circulated throughout the English colonies during the Seventeenth and
early Eighteenth centuries. Examples circulating in the colonies were
usually fairly well worn so that the design was not fully
distinguishable, thus they were sometimes referred to as "dog dollars".
[8]

Private banks issued currency backed by Spanish and U.S. silver and
gold coinage, although the federal government did not do so until the
American Civil War.

The U.S. dollar was originally specified by the Coinage Act of 1792 to
be a unit of weight (471.25 grains of troy silver (about 30.54 g of
silver)) and not one of money as it is thought of today. The value of
gold or silver contained in the dollar was then converted into
relative value in the economy for the buying and selling of goods.
This allowed the value of things to remain fairly constant over time,
except for the influx and outflux of gold and silver in the nation's
economy.

According to an evaluation of data from the U.S. Department of
Treasury, the cost of goods and services remained relatively
consistent between 1635 and 1913, around a level of roughly 25 times
the buying power of the U.S. dollar in 2006

From 1792, when the Mint Act was passed, the dollar was pegged to
silver and gold at 371.25 grains of silver, 24.75 grains of gold (15:1
ratio). 1834 saw a shift in the gold standard to 23.2 grains, followed
by a slight adjustment to 23.22 grains in 1837 (16:1 ratio).[citation
needed]

In 1862, paper money was issued without the backing of precious

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