Re: space travel or war

On Mar 20, 4:29 pm, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 20, 3:55 pm, American <samuelran...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:57 am, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:> In a high-technology age with nuclear weapons and worse, what would
you have the state do to protect its people from possible attack?

It is the today the federal government that wants to capitalize on the
fears of its citizens by permitting the grandstanding of our supposed
"upper hand" that would propel the fastest growth in the defense
industry, while marginalizing the freedom that promise markets WOULD
HAVE offered, if it were not for the "dumbing down" effect that war
material serves to employ.

Obviously you assume here that the United States faces no challenges
that threaten its existence and hence has nothing to fear. What is
the factual basis of this claptrap? Clearly in the 1950s the United
States faced the distinct possibility of a successful nuclear Pearl
Harbor from which it could not recover. Plainly those who worried
about the security of the United States in the coming nuclear age took
steps to secure the United States against such threats. This involved
maintaining a constant war footing, as well as shifting the costs of
doing this to our allies. The methods used worked in the short term,
and had long-term costs which are now coming due and did nothing to
remove us from the need to maintain a war footing going forward and
live in eventual peace.

Our present approach to world affairs clearly signals our profound
belief that there will be a massive die off in human numbers, and our
present geopolitical and military posture can only be rationally
resolved as the intent of our current leadership to make sure that the
citizens of the United States inherit the Earth from those who die
during the die off. The Chinese realize this as do others - and they
are taking steps without directly challenging the United States, or
using proxies - i.e. terrorists - to carry out their policies against
the United States. This is an untenable situation and poses the most
significant risk to the United States in its history.

Even so, NONE of this suggests that the United States is working at
cross-purposes to its people, rather, the United States is working to
secure long term survival to its people at great cost to others.

Everyone accepted that the United States had to give up some liberties
in order to not only survive, but to prosper in this sort of
environment.

Right, which was just the nuisance that the military industrial
complex would have liked,

You assume those who work in the military do not take seriously their
commitment to the American people. This is so far off the mark that
it can be taken as an indicator of madness on your part.

because it would keep our military strong,

The United States is the last remaining superpower. This is due
primarily to the success of the post-war planning. So, I would say we
got what we paid for. The present war on terror, the present trade in
loose nukes, and the present intransigence of allies and others to
create a more peaceful world is a failure due in part to the success
of our cold war policies.

in the sense of there being a world based military police, which
became also in line with, and not inadvertently, the NWO. Yes, it is
the NWO that Americans are sacrificing our liberties to. Americans
have to decide where the "dumbing down" takes place in this conflict,
because, after all, this conflict is not the conflict that will end
ALL conflicts, but a much-less-than-world-encompassing one, where oil-
takes-all, and not the earth-paradise-goes-orbital.

You are making huge statements that proceed from a fundamental
misapprehension. The military, and technical leadership of the United
States operate on behalf of the American people. That you think
otherwise, is obvious. The question you have failed to ask yourself
is WHY you think otherwise? Obviously its not based on facts, but
rather, on your fears, which are at root, founded in madness.

To its credit the governmenet of the United States for the most part
avoided ideological excesses and advanced the cause of freedom and
liberty in the least restrictive environment possible for its
people. To its discredit it has failed to adopt a fair and balanced
process approach to common mode failures or install a process to
promote social innovation and evolve fundamental social advance.
This was not for lack of trying or the courage of those in charge
however, this was due primarily to the difficulty of the problem.

The key words here are "to ITS credit". To WHO's CREDIT? To the
GOVERNMENT's CREDIT? Uh, and where did the "advance the cause of
freedom REALLY come from?

You are playing word games to avoid the simple fact that you are
suffering from paranoid delusions.

Was it not the individual's to begin with,

An individual does not have the right to shout FIRE in a crowded
theater if one knows that loss of life is the probable result.
Similarly, we cannot have certain rights in the nuclear age. The
right to own nuclear weapons for example, or nuclear materials, or
nuclear knowledge, or benefit from a truly efficient nuclear
industry. Before the development of nuclear weapons and the means to
deliver them in minutes anywhere on Earth, sacrificing these rights
would have been unthinkable. After the development of nuclear weapons
- retaining them is equally unthinkable.

Furthermore, before the rise of nuclear weaponry, the idea of
tortuously interfering in the affairs of our citizens, or the affairs
of other nations, in order to avoid the development of nuclear
capability, would have been unthinkable and the grounds for revolution
or war. After the development of nuclear capabilities, such
interference is demanded of any nation who is serious about keeping
the peace.

You talk about rights in isolation of the true situation that faces us
because you believe those rights somehow protect you psychically from
abuse by and un-named 'them' - without realizing or appreciating the
many freedoms you do enjoy, and without realizing the many benefits
and riches you enjoy - despite the loss of certain liberties because
the threat of nuclear warfare changes everything.

or have you somehow lost track of where the "by the people, of the
people, and for the people" really came from? (Hint: Most of the
information in Lincoln's day, PRIOR to the civil war, was either

Lincoln didn't have to deal with nuclear warfare. We do. Lincoln
didn't have to deal with over-population, environmental degradation,
and resource depletion. We do.
If we were to avoid all interference in national and international
affairs to secure the peace, we would very likely not have survived
the cold war period, and would now be but a remnant of our current
population size, enjoying our rights in a radioactive wilderness with
a very bleak future. Again, you rant against 'them' about 'rights' in
total isolation from any realistic assessment of our current
situation.

delivered by horseback mail, or in the DUMBED DOWN SCENARIO, WAS SENT
BY TELEGRAPH). Telegraph was mostly for lazy people that couldn't
plan ahead and put pen to paper because writing reminded them too much
of their third grade education. Sure, train departures and/or arrivals

You shift from blaming 'them' in government, to blaming the very
people you say were abused by them. Do you see a pattern? You are
number one blaming - not providing solutions, number two, blaming
others - not yourself. This is a second indicator of madness. What
you need to ask yourself is what YOU can do to improve YOIUR life.
Not in some abstract sense, but in a real sense. What would give you
a real sense of accomplishment? What would make you truly happy?
What concrete real thing would need to happen in your life to make you
feel that you had it all? FIGURE THAT OUT - and then DO IT! You
will be much happier, and you will contribute to society as well by
doing it. Blaming others for your unhappiness is a fools errand and
the pathway to madness.

were wired ahead, in order to inform passengers of waiting times, but
I'm sure that the novelty of waiting at the station will forever make
the potential customers wonder where all the time went while waiting -
Most of the escape-from-greedy-city Americans were just beginning to

Greedy? You have now passed from blaming to making highly specious
judgments. Such judgments serve only one purpose. TO REMIOVE YOU
FROM ANY IMAGINED BLAME. Another indicator fo madness.

witness the marginalization of the business cycle at the expense of
wealthy industrialists on the heels of the early middle class.

Nonsensical bull***. There are 9.5 million millionaires in the world
possessing over $38 trillion in liquid assets. More money in more
hands than at any time in the history of the world. All these people
have a common communication and business infrastructure, regardless of
their nationality, race, or social position. They have huge potential
to transfrorm the world quite outside the control of any government or
government agency or collection of agencies. They have more economic
rights, and large industrial firms have fewer industrial rights. The
collective wealth of all the major oil companies pale in comparison to
this asset base - $3 trilion vs $38 trillion - and even the debts of
the greatest nation on Earth - the US owes $9 trillion - pales in
comparison to this huge reserve of liquid capital against which all
markets respond.

This accumulation of capital, this accumulation of wealth, this
accumulation of economic might was made possible only because the
United States saw to it that such accumulations of wealth and liberty
would occur in the world. While major US industries have sought
special benefit by exercising their relationship to US national
security policies, many of the military ...

read more >>

What's the matter, can't you cut and paste at least 10,000 words of
Mook's CIA World FactBook at a time?

BTW, because of our phony war(s) of recent times (that you've approved
of), and of the subsequent artificially forced inflation via energy,
as of lately it's costing humanity an extra $5 trillion per year above
what a mere decade ago was costing us, and that's not even taking into
account the direct cost impact of 9/11 or the pretend amount of what
our war is costing mostly us dumbfounded Americans. In other words,
this all-inclusive inflation that's primarily because of what our
government has created is pushing this inflation factor towards $1000/
year per each and every soul on Earth, though many of this planet can
not afford 1% of that amount. Way to go, GW Bush and company of brown-
nosed minions.
.. - Brad Guth
.