Re: Life likely on Mars

On May 26, 5:08 pm, "jonathan" <H...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"BradGuth" <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:095c38f1-0b18-48e8-94a5-e6b10b12bf7c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On May 26, 10:10 am, "jonathan" <H...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"BradGuth" <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:babe00d5-0100-4544-a766-7a86a80aa19c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Life likely on Mars" as of how many hundred millions if not a billion
years ago?

Maybe as recently as the last ice-age cycle on Mars.

And that was how many millions upon millions of years ago?

I don't know, but I doubt it was millions. It would seem to me the
complicated orbit and tilt of Mars means ice ages that are also
complicated or irregular. But look carefully at the ...shadows...
cast in each of these two pics. They show the same delicate
erosion pattern caused by water eroding away the soil.

How long ago was Mars wet???
To say geologic time seems absurd.

Not to me, although anything is possible other than any extended solar
related cycle of that extreme. If Mars ever got that toasty enough
for accommodating regular h2o as snow, Earth would have been getting
summarily roasted to death.

How hot is the core of Mars, and how large is that geothermal core??
(or are we talking about a core of ice?)


Look at the erosion pattern cast by the/shadows/, the surrounding
soil texture and note the Mars pic in on a 10 degree slope.

Yellowstone mudpothttp://www.nps.gov/yell/slidefile/thermalfeatures/mudpots/midwaylower...
Endurance mudpothttp://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2004-07-16/1P1431...

Mars Emerging from Ice Age, Data Suggest
By SPACE.com

Scientists have suspected in recent years that Mars might be undergoing some
sort of global warming. New data points to the possibility it is emerging from
an ice age.

NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter has been surveying the planet for nearly a full
Martian year now, and it has spotted seasonal changes like the advance and
retreat of polar ice. It's also gathering data of a possible longer trend.

There appears to be too much frozen water at low-latitude regions -- away from
the frigid poles -- given the current climate of Mars. The situation is not in
equilibrium, said William Feldman of the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

"One explanation could be that Mars is just coming out of an ice age," Feldman
said. "In some low-latitude areas, the ice has already dissipated. In others,
that process is slower and hasn't reached an equilibrium yet. Those areas are
like the patches of snow you sometimes see persisting in protected spots long
after the last snowfall of the winter."http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html

They likely meant to say crystal dry-ice fall, because at least that's
technically doable within the regular laws of physics.


Life needs what some might call a persistant temp gradient.
Or a phase transition, that constantly transitions from one
state to another. Due to the abundance of water on earth, the
entire surface is one great big pile of nested phase transitions.
Evolution happens at it's best pace on earth as a result.

You mean life as we know it evolves rather nicely on Earth once given
an extremely complex start that is still fully misunderstood, plus
receiving loads of sheer dumb luck along the way.

You still don't get the point of fluids. The more random and
dynamic the interactions, the better. Self organizing systems
spontaneously emerge when total system randomness is
at a maximum. You call it luck because of all the randomness.
But that is a poor word for the ultimate source of creation.

The Second Law is relentless, it creates randomness.
The food of Creation.

Luck or Design?

How about both, or just damn good ET intelligent design to start off
with.


I could imagine a much slower process on Mars. Lets say
a single year on earth would provide a typical life cycle
on earth. But on Mars, as water melts out from underground
and freezes again as ice-ages wax and wane, a ...single life cycle
might be an....ice-age, not a year.

I can agree that a 100,000 year, or perhaps more than likely the
million year ice-age cycle (if having to exclude Sirius would make
such ice-age cycles entirely misunderstood) as representing one life
cycle to a given species of a tough and rad-hard Mars spore.

To me Mars, where life is concerned, is a slow-motion version
of earth. Where the primary water cycle is between the oceans
and the atmosphere on earth...very dynamic. And on Mars the
water cycle is between underground ice and near surface soil.
...very slow.

I would tend to agree, especially if that form of robust spore like
life has been sequestered underground or at least as having migrated
under a sufficient blanket of ice, snow and fluffy dry-ice crystals.
Enough ice is actually a good thermal insulator, and provides an even
better radiation shield.

But that is not AT ALL a reason not to look for life on Mars.
Quite the opposite, it'a a reason to look very hard.
Why?

The question all this is meant to answer is CREATION!
Or how life first began.

Mars just might show us ...exactly...how life first starts.
What the missing link between geology and biology looks like.

In that case, the newish environment of the planet Venus, of which is
cooling itself off rather nicely, is far closer to the perceived life
cycle of proto-Earth. But then you and others of your kind only
believe in whatever your pagan God NASA has to say, even if it's
entirely subjective, and therefore so what's the difference about what
anyone else has to say.

Maybe the fact the last spacecraft melted shortly after landing
has discouraged the search for life on Venus. I do agree though
that Venus is a very dynamic place. But where would the conditions
be suitable for life on Venus? I would think the clouds would
be about it. Like on the gas planets.

What can anyone possibly say about those before as being certifiably
dumb and dumber, though getting paid as though each were Einstein or
better.


Maybe it's too chaotic on Venus, and too static on Mars.
Remember, the ideal conditions are a combination of
chaotic and static, near either extreme the whole suffers.
Which is why fluids are ideal, as a transitional state between
ice and vapor (Mars and Venus).

Venus has unlimited renewable energy and Earth like minerals, as well
as protection for the likes of frail DNA, whereas Mars has hardly
squat going for itself.


You don't even believe in darn good pictures, other than of those
having been interpreted by your intellectual cartel that's 100% brown-
nosed itself to the mainstream status quo. In other words, you do not
have a mind of your own.

Let's judge their motives by the results. Let's see how this mission
changes things.

. - Brad Guth

Your extremely narrow focus, ability to exclude evidence, failure to
take into account the regular laws of physics or much less of whatever
intelligent ETs or other intelligent species of life could have
accomplished in spite of how snookered and dumbfounded this humanity
of Earth has become, and otherwise your clear lack of any deductive
thinking, doesn't leave us much to work with.
.. - Brad Guth
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Radiative Habitable Zones in Martian Polar Environments
    ... Mars polar habitat zone that's covered by such a thick crystal ... solid ice" as having provided us with this following research link ... their being other such life within ice; ... Of course, going for Venus is almost too easy, especially when at times ...
    (sci.astro.seti)
  • Re: Life likely on Mars
    ... Maybe as recently as the last ice-age cycle on Mars. ... Life needs what some might call a persistant temp gradient. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: OT: More fuel for climate change
    ... Now, since the ice is breaking up, they're dying. ... average temperature has climbed about 0.6 degrees Celsius (about 1 ... Maybe that little Mars rover they sent up there is all they need. ... The mean temperature on Venus is 456.85 C or 854.33? ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: Life likely on Mars
    ... Maybe as recently as the last ice-age cycle on Mars. ... Life needs what some might call a persistant temp gradient. ... Evolution happens at it's best pace on earth as a result. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • Re: We have water
    ... So would I be right in assuming that in having ice and energy (from ... the sun) mars has the ingredients we think are necessary for life? ... NASA scientists have said they had definitive proof that water exists ...
    (talk.origins)