Re: Space Travel will save the world

On Jun 29, 10:51 pm, kT <cos...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
We need to go beyond politics of right wing or left wing -as they're
both flawed - go beyond the politics as usual and seek to construct
real solutions to real problems facing us.

Like for instance, sustainable life support systems using the resources
we already have at our disposal?

How does that work exactly? You got that worked out? Fact is, we
need to reach beyond the center to the resources of our frontier.
Fact is, we are already farming every square inch of land the best we
can, and still 3 billion go to bed hungry and 300,000 die every day of
malnutrition.

You think we should use scientific farming methods instead of
susbsistence farming everywhere we can? Good idea Bongo. Howd does
that work exactly? You got that all worked out do you? I'd love to
see the plan. Fact is, we can't scientifically farm every square inch
of arable land, we don't have the resources to do it.

The USA and its Cold War Allies are in a sweet spot - that technology
and terrestrial resources cannot sustain, let alone EXPAND to include
everyone on Earth in a growing vital economy.

There are two solutions possibles;

1) tap the resources off-world
2) collapse

That's it. We can't magically wave the technology wand and make do
with everything here. You gonna quote me about the great advances
we've had with computers? Why don't you look at capacitors - and
specifically - the tantalum required for high performance capacitors.
Or what about the great advances in head phones eh? You know, back
in the day, we had Old School headphones - and microphones too. And
to get any good quality they were as big a freaking blackberry on each
ear! and they used a lot of power too! Well, today - we've got
super magnets - made the lollypop microphones and softball sized
headphones into point mikes - and ear buds - vastly reducing power -
why we do that with our cars and homes - my God - they'll be plenty
for everyone right?

How does that work exactly? Look at the mining of Neodymium. You
want to know what's propping up the murder states of Africa right
now? Yep, those earbuds and i-pods, and all the rest have blood on
them - you couldn't make enough batteries, capacitors, and other
advanced technology gizmos for 3 billion people let alone 8 billion
people every 4 years or so - the life time of most equipment.

Even today, though, getting your ipod at a price you can afford
requires that the raw material be extracted by slave labor in a murder
state, and assembled by indentured technicians living in a Communist
slave state. And that will last only as long as there are enough
strategic materials to keep the process working. Who are bearing the
real cost of declining reserves? The slaves who are murdered by the
millions searching every square inch of their land for the rare
materials demanded by the owners of this planet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7472650.stm


But you know humans, they go ape ***.

Seeing our raw materials shortages as a personality defect in humans
generally is an interesting response. I guess it must be an artifiact
of the propaganda they feed the consumers to keep them blind to the
damage they do and the human costs they incur to maintain their
'lifestyle'.

I have limited myself to
the technology of survival by moving beyond the center into the
frontier to develop new resources.

Really? How much lithium have you mined today? How much lithium do
you use?
How much oil have you pumped today? How much oil do you use?
How much platinum did you refine today? How much platinum did you
use?
How much tantalum did you smelt today? How much tantalum do you use?
How much copper did you mine today? How much copper did you use?

I could go on with about 100 strategic materials - and continue on to
over 1,000 less strategic materials - and I would bet that you don't
even know your footprint let alone know how to maintain your standard
of living with a reduced foot print.

And before you answer none -you use ALL those materials I listed, just
by being able to communicate with me on the internet. Do you know
what your footprint is for tantalum? Count the capacitors in your
computer, and in the communications link and power supply that feeds
it - and all the other systems you touch...


It won't make any difference at all, the apes will still go ape ***.

You are blind and stupid and ignorant of the facts - and have nothing
of real importance to say as a result.

***, ***, piss, eat - more ape babies.

Interesting. If you don't like babies, why the *** are you alive?
What is the point of your existence?

Let me give you the only answer that works.

Taking care of one another is the only worthwhile activity on this
planet for humans. We are doing a shitty job of it - that's because
the wise guys that work for the owners of this planet - have
determined we cannot take care of one another with the resources at
our disposal. Technology has got us into a trap - according to these
wise guys. That trap is - technology has increased population above
sustainable levels - and given us nuclear weapons and all sorts of
horrible killing machines. The owner's problem is to maintain their
position while managing a 'die down' of human numbers to a more
reasonable level. That's the most favorable version of the collapse
scenario I mentioned above. Problem is, its incredibly rosy
scenario. Problem is, certain of the hired hands for the owners are
making their own plans to take advantage of the 'die down' of human
numbers. They're secretly supporting terror cells that naturally
arise when people's lives are frustrated. By frustrated I mean
getting your family blown up in front of your face because you didn't
want to mine copper for nothing while your babies were sick. That
sort of frustration. Survivors of this mayhem are motivated and
willing to undergo any hardship to get back at the people they think
are responsible. These are perfect tools for the hired hands who are
secretly plotting against the owners. The owners can even be
engineered into training and supplying these terror cells. Al Queda
for instance, were our boys in Afghanistan when we wanted a proxy
force to kick the Russian's ass. They were efficiently turned
against the owners, and their leaders are hiding in the hinterlands of
the hired hands. Gang members - outcasts among the owners - and bad
boys generally - are urged to join the Armies of the owners to get
training - then, when those bad boys learn to kill efficiently, they
leave the Army and start a revolutionary cell of their own in the very
heartland of the owners - supplied with guns and drugs and money by
the hired hands. Meanwhile, loose nukes and nuclear technology are
flowing throughout the lands of the hired hands - into the control of
the terror groups. So, a less rosy scenario for the owners of this
planet, is the detonation of a few loose nukes in their major cities -
with the rising up of highly militarized 'gangs' at every surviving
city center - and the owners will be put down - while the hired hands
take over - assuring that the owners will bear the brunt of the die
down - rather than ride the crest on the back of impoverished
billions.

Of course these are just variations in the collapse of human
numbers. Anyone looking back at our current age - in a post collapse
world - will properly see it as a golden era of opportunity and
adventure - if you're smart enough to see it. After collapse we
won't have the resources, we won't have the people, we won't have the
talent, we won't have the skills - of a planet of 6.6 billion people -
we'll be struggling with perhaps 1 billion people and space travel
will be a remote fantasy.

Space won't help them at all.

Yes it will. It is the ONLY thing that will help us. The owners of
this planet don't want widespread missile or nuclear technology for
obvious reason, so they have gone out of their way to create the
fiction that space travel is necessarily expensive, dangerous and
impractical. I was told this flat out in Washington back in the
1990s. Teledesic and Iridium were taking the next logical step in
satellite development - many to many - this required a lot of
satellites - and it created a lot of value when done well. So, I
started a company, Orbatek - to build a two-stage reusable launcher
around off-the-shelf hardware. Of course, you can't even advertise
such a program without getting approvals, so I went to Washington to
the DOT to get the approvals needed. As I developed my program, I
ran into a number of interesting people. Most interesting were the
folks at the Pentagon. I had a frank discussion with a Colnel
there. You cannot do this cheaply! he said. Mistaking his comment
for a statement of fact, I went on to show how I could do all this
within my budget. No, he said, you CANNOT do this cheaply. Why? I
asked. Because $500 million is a hefty sum for you to raise - but its
easy for nations like Korea or India, or you name it, to raise. You
succeed in building an orbital vehicle for less than $1 billion - you
succeed in making it reliable and all the rest - and you are sending
the wrong signal. Missile proliferation will be a thing of the past.
Every tin pot dictator in the world will create a space program and
have missiles within 3 years of your first successful launch - so you
CANNOT do this cheaply. Got it?

I thought the guy was mad.

But, Connestoga went up in flames. Iridium and Teledesic went bye
bye. Rotary rocket was a fiasco. Why? Because it scared the owners
of this planet with the potential that they would lose their grip on
the control of technologies they have come to regard as their own.

We have avoided progress because progress scared the powers that be.
This insures our ultimate failure. The powers that be think they're
insuring their survival.


You might try ... education.

Right, and the first one I'm educating is you you arrogant blow hard!
lol. Terrestrial solar is an off-world resource that arrives here
with very little effort. So, its the first off-world resource we
will use. Humanity spends about $8 trillion per year on food and $4
trillion per year on energy, and $2 trillion per year on 'defense'
basically maintaining the power structure that keeps the food and
energy flowing in the right direction at the right prices.

This is where we start.

This is where the opportunity lies.

Develop a solar powered replacement for fossil fuels.

Using the profits from this operation, capture rich asteroids, bring
them into orbit around Earth, and using tele-robotics -which allow
everyone everywhere to work in a civilized way in space - and solar
power in space, process those asteroids in space, into products that
are then distributed world-wide to everyone everywhere using GPS
guided entry vehicles.

Use captured asteroids and orbiting factories that process them, to
make large numbers of pressure vessels that then use tele-robotic
systems to grow food and distribute it globally at low cost.

Expand the number and size of pressure vessels to grow forests in
space, and distribute fiber along with food to everyone on Earth.

Use captured asteroidal resources and orbiting factories, along with
tele-robotic labor and solar power to build aerostat cities powered by
laser beams from space - similar to 'cloud nine' cities envisioned by
Buckminster Fuller back in the 1960s.

These aerostat cities circulate around Earth supplying materials and
know-how to disaster areas - and rescuing populations - by removing
them from harms way. Providing a decent place to live, medical care,
food, training a decent job - and a fair and balanced financial
services program to accumulate wealth - to anyone who asks -

Use captured asteroidal resources and orbiting factories, along with
tele-robotic labor and solar power to build large numbers of
autonomous fliers that use beamed laser energy from space to power
propulsive skins that implement personal ballistic transport systems
at extremely low cost. People first rent, then fractionally own, and
then own outright - personal veihcles that span the globe in less than
an hour.

Use captured asteroidal resources and orbiting factories powered by
sunlight, with tele-robotic labor - to build pressure vessels that
operate as independent space homes on orbit - supplied by the very
system that build them. People use their personal ballistic transport
systems to attain orbit - and shuttle back and forth between Earth and
their space home. Most stay at home and use telerobotics to go to
work, and telepresence to socialize.

The energy and material resources of the inner solar system are
adequate to all our foreseeable needs for growth of the human culture
through this difficult time of transition. This is important to
know. The more that know it, the more we will make rational
decisions going forward - rather than the continuing stream of
irrational decisions based firmly in insane belief systems or the
fantasy of self serving propaganda.
.

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