Re: Is it this easy to live on Mars?

On Sep 25, 5:20 pm, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Sep 23, 3:53 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Sep 23, 12:30 am, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Sep 21, 8:16 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 21, 4:35 pm, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Sep 21, 4:52 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 21, 12:09 pm, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Sep 21, 12:33 am, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 20, 8:17 pm, Willie.Moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

The radiation level on Earth exposes us to 1 millirad per day
The radiation level on Mars is 8 millirad per day
The radiation level in interplanetary space is 22 millirad per day

Ever notice how you're all alone on this one?

btw, there's more than one kind of radiation dosage. Want to bet that
Mars dosage per mrad is of a worse dosage (more DNA lethal) than any
terrestrial mrad?

~ BG

Do you have any relevant references using actual measured data to back
up this claim? Or is it as baseless as all other claims you
erroneously make?

Oddly, most all of our better and most recent DARPA and NASA related
instrumentation readings are either taboo or nondisclosure rated.

That's a lie.- but I understand you have absolutely no data to back up
your statements made earlier.

Raytheon/TRW space data report has the average GSO dosage as shielded
by 2 g/cm2 (roughly 5/16" aluminum) as 2e3 Sv/year, and that's letting
only the really bad and secondary/recoil stuff in.

Geosynch orbit has 2,000 Sv/yr - That's 20 rad/yr - that's 54.7
millirad/day - which is more than double the figure in free space,
since you're in the middle of the freaking VanAllen belt.

Place that same package into orbiting our gamma saturated moon

Why would placing a sensor that's in the middle of the vanAllen belt
reproduce radiation levels found in that place? This makes
absolutely no sense at any level.

and
within a relatively short amount of time you can kiss your *** of
frail DNA goodbye with having 20 g/cm2 worth of shielding.

You don't understand what you're talking about. Radiation levels do
not depend on how the sensor is constructed or how they selected a
specific range of ionizing radiation - haha - fact is, radiation
levels on the surface of the moon averages 15 millirads per day.
Easily survivable for short periods of time as experienced by Apollo
crews (equivalent to a Concorde flight) but an issue for long term
habitation. This is nearly 1/4 the levels found at GSO - the center
of the Van Allen belts - where significant quantities of ionizing
radiation circulate around the Earth.

Levels on the moon are not constant - Lunar polar regions are somewhat
sheilded from solar radiation to the 8 millirad level - and there
appears to be water available subsurface there. So, this may be a
place to try out some of the technology that will later be used on
Mars.

GSO at 200,000 rads per year as shielded by 5/16" aluminum. Can you
say duh?

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will admit that I miscalculated - dividing by 100 rather than
multiplying by 100 - so, I'm off in interpreting the figure you gave
by a factor of 10,000 - this puts the radiation level up to 547 rads
per day - which is lethal to humans.

GSO is the center of the van allen belts though I find this number
surprising, so I'd like to see it confirmed with standard models
developed by NASA and ESA. (I gave references elsewhere)

Despite my error,which is easily understood and corrected, you are
still wrong thinking that 5/16inch layer of aluminum sheilds radiation
- it actually multiplies it creating secondary radiation. I gave
pointers to explanations of how that works elsewhere as well.
.
You are also wrong in thinking that just because high levels of
radiation exist at the center of the van allen belt that they must
exist elsewhere. You really should come to understand how radiation
flows through teh space environment, then you would see that while
raidation must be taken into account in mission planning, it is not a
show stopper as you seem to suggest.

5/16" aluminum only blocks UV

We're talking about ionizing radiation - you really should endeavour
to TRY to understand the BASICS of a subject before posting on it.

and moderates soft-X-rays,

We're talking about ionizing radiation sir. This is different than
electromagnetic radiation.

and otherwise
as you say it's making the secondary/recoil dosage as derived from
regular X-rays, hard-X-rays and of gamma that much worse off if it

No ionizing radiation consists of highly-energetic particles or waves
that can detach (ionize) at least one electron from an atom or
molecule. Ionizing ability depends on the energy of individual
particles or waves, and not on their number. A large flood of
particles or waves will not, in the most common situations, cause
ionization if the individual particles or waves are not by themselves
ionizing.

Examples of ionizing radiation are energetic beta particles, neutrons,
and alpha particles. The ability of electromagnetic waves (photons) to
ionize an atom or molecule varies across the spectrum.

were of frail human DNA being shielded by such a thin (2 g/cm2) amount
of aluminum.

A sunburn is different than the type of radiation we're talking about
- again you have made a fundamental error based on the fact you are
reading words on a screen in your mom's basement without any regard to
the underlying reality behind those words. Please get out of the
basement and do something in real life so you can begin to comprehend
those things you seem passionate about. Right now you are just an
embarassment to yourself.

The nearly naked Selene/moon isn't hardly an environment much
different than our worse Van Allen belt dosage,

Hunh? You quoted figures that were in excess of 500 rad. This is
equivalent to being nuked by a small atomic bomb. Were this figure
accurate, and an astronaut present when it occurred, it would kill
them within days.

The surface of the moon is in the 60 millrad range in the lunar
highlands due to secondary effects - and travel to the moon in the 30
millirad range - higher than interplanetary space - this due to the
van allen belt .
.

except that the
unusually higher than expected surface density of our moon is perhaps
why there's so much secondary/recoil worth of gamma to deal with

????

http://villaolmo.mib.infn.it/ICATPP10th_2007/Software%20Applications/...

What's so high about 225 milliSv per year?

(unless being locally produced from scratch), and of Mars with its
nearly zilch worth of atmosphere and practically no magnetosphere
certainly can't be all that much better off.

Why? Sunlight, gases, soil water - all worthwhile stuff.shaped into
beautiful and useful architcture. Less than a metric ton of
machinery, seeds, thin films, and tools - sufficient to create a dozen
acres per family of beautiful safe living space.

Has anyone of any importance outside of the mainstream status quo
cesspool of yes men and brown-nosed minions ever come to the same
agreement as with those notions of yours? Obviously not, as in not
even close, as otherwise you wouldn't have been personally bothering
with Usenet/newsgroup postings, as you'd have a staff of servitude
minions doing it on your behalf.

Obviously the notions of our terraforming Mars is not going to happen,
especially since we've more than demonstrated that we can't even
manage Earth or much less our moon that was supposedly made of Earth.

Your lies and deceptions are clearly based upon other lies of those
you admirer with every fiber of your black heart, whereas each lie
begets another and another, and it seems our dumbfounded citizens of
this nation are still pretty much without a clue.

What can I or most anyone else say? Obviously nothing can be said to
such a loyal Zionist/Nazi lover and supporter like yourself and others
of your pretend-Atheism and politically neutral kind that hasn't an
honest bone nor would ever admit to having a clue as to how we'd
otherwise manage to keep 10,000 spare/surplus military and countless
civil service workers employed after WWII, when there was clearly no
good reason other than our mutually perpetrated cold-war. The same
argument as applied 10 fold greater in numbers for the USSR, as
becoming our tango partner in crimes against humanity.

The resulting global fears along with cultivated bigotry, racism,
hatreds of most all other sorts and of course having caused inflation
in just about everything is what subsequently transpired, not to
mention burning through the bulk of our fossil fuels and otherwise
trashing our global environment in the process, plus multiple wars and
international fiascos as having been created or made worse and/or
sustained longer. Don’t even try to suggest that our mainstream
religions had nothing to do with any of this, or that religion has no
part in cultivating or otherwise benefiting by way of their being in
charge of what others are doing right under our noses, and then having
been sharing back to their global domination church a portion of the
artificial wealth generated.

The perpetual mainstream damage-control argument(s) that no one or
multiple agencies of our government or that of any church/religion
related factors are actually in charge of or otherwise directly or
indirectly responsible for any of the global or local bad stuff, just
doesn’t hardly fly, because Muslim Gypsies or rogue cults simply can’t
be responsible for every bad and consequence thing that comes along.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG
.