Re: Mining the Moons of Mars

On Jan 16, 11:04 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 16, 3:22 pm, willie.moo...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:



On Jan 14, 9:47 am, Ian Parker <ianpark...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 13 Jan, 23:13, disgoftunwells <disgoftunwe...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

We might all be speaking Russian in the queue to buy rationed bread,
whilst the Politburo elite meet in a luxury villa on the moon.- Hide quoted text -

That is total rubbish. The Russians were never in a position to launch
an attack in Europe. We can see this now.

War is no longer about the defense of one's country, war is about
intervention. Generally speaking interventions are expensive and
counter productive as was Iraq. Not only would technology have been
advanced but you would not get hoards of people wandering across the
Middle East. If the US had not had the capacity to strike down Iraq a
lot of misery would have been spared.

There is one other thing which I think William would probable agree
about and it is this. Asia is outproducing the US in terms of
engineers. Far too high a proportion of the US engineering effort is
directed to the military and far too little for the civil sector. Most
AI research in the US is military. Helicopters that can land on a
window sill etc. etc.

Japan and Korea have moved ahead and now the US has a balance of
payments deficit in high tech goods. Japan produces most of the
World's flat screens and the troubles of the auto industry are only
partly due to recession.

BTW - I do not know what certain posters have against robotics and VN
machines. They are certain to be invented but not here.

  - Ian Parker

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ChomOdon_Traditional.html

Its been US policy to use its economic, political and military
strengths to maintain its dominant position in the world.

This has caused more problems for the world than it has solved for the
USA.

Gee whiz, I've been saying the exact same thing for decades.  

No you haven't.

Guess
your bipolar medication is working again.

Nonsense

What the hell makes you think our government and DARPA/NASA have been
telling us the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and otherwise
not having been excluding evidence?

Because the US government operates to benefit US citizens.

Nixon's caving to China to save the dollar, and his caving to the oil
companies for internal political reasons - have given China and Saudi
Arabia the levers to undermine the USA and end its dominance.  The
terror acts of 9/11 are the opening moves on their end game.  It is
not surprising that terror cells that plan to attack the USA operate
just inside the Chinese Western frontiers, while supplied with cash
from Saudi extremists and nuclear materials from a disintegrating
Soviet Union arsenal.

Already the USA has had an economic meltdown as Chinese and Saudi
money have been withdrawn from the US banking system, to sit on the
sidelines while they pump out plenty of oil and plenty of products.
When the USA prints more money to make up for this shortfall - and buy
low cost products and energy - they will then unload the money they
have on the sidelines while simultaneously increasing the prices of
everything they make.  The USA did this to Indonesia after the
election of Suharto - and to Mexico - after the signing of NAFTA.
George Soros was the major actor - but basically - both nations were
totally destroyed economically by their currency going to nothing.

The same will happen to the USA if this is what is happening.

To add insult to injury - the Terror cells may succeed in detonation
of a nuclear device in the USA homeland over this period - this will
slam the US economy on its ass - and it won't get up for a generation
or two.  Civil liberties will be a chapter in American History books
after that.

This is how it could end for the USA.

It doesn't have to go that way.

We can do something about our energy dependence, by tapping into solar
power and nuclear power cheaply.

We can do something about our manufacturing dependence by using
teleoperated factories and greenhouses in the US homeland - producing
everything efficiently enough to export throughout the world and be
competitive.

We can do something about resource dependence by tele-operated
factories on the ocean floor and in space - and developing the means
to capture asteroids and place them in sun synch polar orbits.

All improve security since we can import low wage labor - tele-
robotically - without importing large shiploads of stuff.

This puts more money into circulation and ends our dependence on
foreign liquidity to support our banking system as well.

It also means the logic that supports the Cold War put in place more
than 50 years ago - is ended.

And once again, Mook offers no remorse,

for what? More nonsense.

or would Mook have changed the
past on behalf of accomplishing anything for the better.  

I have said since I started being asked by folks in Washington for my
opinion twenty years ago, that the Cold War policies of the USA do not
serve us well in the post-nuclear age. I gave talks in DC, at
conferences, when the Soviet Union was near collapse that we ought to
reach out to those republics and sponsor a manned grand tour of the
solar system using our nuclear arsenals as feedstock for non-
threatening propulsive units for a fleet of nuclear pulse rockets.
This would keep the weaponeers busy and employed, inspire universal
cooperation an attract youth worldwide toward a more modern scientific
approach to the world - one full of hope and possibility - and
undermine destructive alternatives like 11th century extremists.

Once the fleet was operational it would be child's play to establish a
city on the moon, an mars, and outposts throughout the solar system,
adapt the system toward surveying ALL the small bodies of the solar
system, and capturing the richest of those to bring into sun synch
polar orbit above Earth, and place on them solar powered remotely
operated factories.

In the process the USA would also build a global wireless broadband
network, to provide micro-banking telephone internet TV and other
services world wide - and add a global wireless telepresence
teleoperation suite so that people can live anywhere an dwork
anywhere. This would allow the USA to keep its manufacturing in the
USA while using low wage labor overseas - telerobotically. This would
have avoided the problem we now have with China. This would also
have set up the process whereby we can make use of the ocean floor
cheaply and captured asteroids cheaply.

We build a large array of solar panels in the US southwest to become
energy exporters by making hydrogen on a massive scale at very low
cost, and using that hydrogen instead of coal at coal fired power
plants. Then adding more hydrogen to the stranded coal to allow us to
make enough syncrude to export oil overseas while providing for ALL
our needs. This undermines the problem we have with Saudi Arabia
now.

Then, we use very large launchers to put up solar power satellite
network that beams band-gap matched laser energy from a solar pumped
laser to the terrestrial solar panels - increasing their output 8x.
This allows us to setup a global market to export liquid hydrogen from
the USA around the world - and support industrial growth to 8x current
levels.

As tele-robots become more productive and capable - and become less
and less dependent on their 'drivers' - productivity increases. This
labor productivity increase is matched by energy increase and
availability of raw materials - from orbit.

Building large orbiting power stations that operate in solar orbit
beyond Earth, only 8.3 million km in diameter - they beam laser
energy at 1,100x the intensity at Earth - and the GEO based solar
powersats are upgraded to reform the incoming high intensity laser
beams - to provide not only increased hydrogen output - 24x today's
energy level from the same ground installation - but also to send
beams reliably and safely directly to end users throughout the world,
and beyond providing energy per year at levels 10,000x the levels we
energy today.

This could have all been done in the last 30 years with existing
technology - and I have consistently promoted this technology at the
highest levels for the past 20 years.

The development of MEMs based propulsive skins - where each thrustel
consists of three orthogonally oriented rocket units - whose resultant
vector is normal to the skin surface - millions of microscopic rocket
elements are installed on a vehicle skin - much as plasma dots are
installed on a plasma HDTV - and controlled the same way to create
seamless dynamic thrust vectors on the surface - much as dynamic HDTV
color images are created on a plasma screen.

http://www.me.berkeley.edu/mrcl/rockets.html

Laser powered propulsive skins provide a vast array of new transport
technologies that commoditize rocket transport, and create a global
village - where anyone can travel anywhere in minutes - and even
attain orbit as easily as today we drive across town.

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMJPC2005_1177/PV2005_3650.pdf

This combined with orbiting factories, which also support
infrastructure on orbit, using O'Neil style pressure vessels to create
farms and forests on orbit, all remotely tended, to produce food,
wood, and fiber in any quantity desired, delivered by solar powered
rail gun to anyone anywhere within minutes, with propulsive skin
landing safely reliably and cheaply anywhere from orbit.

Proof being
the past 20 years having nothing of Mook.

I've done more than you. Why do you insist on attacking others when
the only person you can really control is you? Obviously you like
painting others as lacking to avoid looking at your own lackluster
performance.


Your idea of science future is in of itself science future, if not
science fiction.

While many of the things I propose are fantastic, they are far from
fantasy.


Apparently any idea of better focus or methods suggested for improved
efficiency, safety or wise investment, as given by anyone other than
Mook, isn't worth ***.

Why do you set up these red herrings? These false choices? Clearly
you have no desire whatever to be of real practical use to anyone.
Seek help from a competent mental health professional.


Exploring and mining the interior of our moon,

The moon is too far away to conveniently send teleoperated humaniform
robots.

http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/

The interior of the moon is removed from solar power sources - though
systems can be set up to send power to the lunar interior. This
obviously will occur later - after we capture asteroids and setup
solar power satellites and mine the oceans - if need be.

or much less utilizing
it's L1,

You constantly tout this - but never provide a reasonable explanation
why you think its such a good idea. L1 again is too far away to
operate telerobots from Earth's surface in real time - so, it will
occur later. L1 does have some interesting possibilities - which have
been explored by NASA and others for decades.

as well as accomplishing the planet Venus

Venus will be terraformed long after the Moon and Mars are terraformed
- Venus is a hellhole and a very difficult proposition. It will be
done - there will even be colonies floating 50 km above Venusian
surface before 2100 - but it won't be a resource of raw materials -
you can send tons of material to Earth from the asteroid belt for the
same effort it takes to send a kg of material from Venus' surface.

are good examples
of what you have always opposed,

Nonsense.

because you're just a downright
mainstream butt of a butthead.

No I'm not. You say that to take attention away from your
shortcomings.

You believe 100% of anything and everything published and/or supported
by our NASA,

Why not? They're honorable capable hard-working people. Three of
those adjectives don't apply to you.

whereas their subjective science is more than
sufficient.  

Science is a greek word that stands for knowledge. Knowledge derived
from the natural world through a process called the scientific method
- which involves independent experimental confirmation of results.
Why wouldn't someone accept experimental confirmation of something?

Of course you also reverse each and every argument in
order to benefit only the Mook mindset.

Nonsense.

The funny thing,  you damn well know exactly what I mean,

haha - that's rich. Not only do I not know what you mean, I doubt
very much you know what you mean.

and yet you
claim not to understand whenever it suits your side.  

Sides? More insanity.

Apparently your
bipolarism

Nonsense.

and pretend-Atheism

A word grouping totally devoid of any real meaning.

each has perks and benefits, just like
it did for Hitler, Bush and each of their Zionist puppet masters.

More random words that have no real meaning - except to make you feel
better about yourself. Get help from a competent mental health
professional.

 ~ BG

.