Re: A wet Mars but was it cold or warm?


"Fred J. McCall" <fjmccall@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:hdqj15tior1b8bnqnj7kg5cb7mq6bscml0@xxxxxxxxxx
Marvin the Martian <marvin@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:
:The debate now is not that Mars has water; it has oceans of it frozen
:under a thin layer of Martian dust, as the Phoenix Lander has shown.
:

Beyond poppy*** and into outright lie. It's shown no such thing.



There's plenty of evidence of frozen water on Mars, not just from
Phoenix. Five million years ago according to this paper...



Lunar and Planetary Science XXXVI (2005)

EVIDENCE FROM HRSC MARS EXPRESS FOR A FROZEN SEA
CLOSE TO MARS EQUATOR

"We have found evidence consistent with a presently-existing frozen
body of water, with surface pack-ice, around +5º latitude and 150º
east longitude in southern Elysium. It measures about 800 km x 900 km
and averages up to 45 m deep: similar in size and depth to the North Sea.
It has probably been protected from complete sublimation by a surface
sublimation lag formed from suspended sediment exposed
by early loss of the surface ice. Its age from crater counts is 5 ±2 Ma."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2005/pdf/1741.pdf


The question should be, does Mars have ice-ages? Does it's
complicated orbit allow periods of warming where water can
briefly flow to the surface? All evidence says the answer is
probably yes to both questions.


Wobbles of Mars Produced 40 Ice Ages
By Jeanna Bryner
Staff Writer

"Various spacecraft have revealed evidence for ice ages on Mars.
Around 4 million to 5 million years ago, precipitation events sent piles
of snow and ice that accumulated around the ice caps. Nowadays, the
only visible ice on Mars is the pair of polar caps. But in recent years,
orbiting probes have found solid evidence for vast sheets of underground
ice near the red planet's equator, at what scientists call mid-latitudes.
How ice ended up so far from the poles has remained a mystery.
The answer could be in the wobble of Mars, concludes Norbert
Schörghofer of the University of Hawaii's Astrobiology Institute. "
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070912_mars_ice.html







:
:Nor is it an issue that Mars has liquid water and once had LOTS of liquid
:water.
:
:The debate is, was Mars warm, or was it very cold.(1) Sadly, here is
:where it gets political, for we are talking about CO2 and climate change.
:
:I hate it when political hacks put on lab coats and pose as scientist.
:

I hate it when idiots read things, fail to understand them, and then
tie it to all sorts of silly ***.

:
:The claim is, a slurry of chemicals lowered the freezing point of water,
:much like salt lowers the freezing point of water. The obvious answer,
:however, is that Mars was warmer, liquid water existed, and the water
:vapor pressure put a lot more water vapor into the atmosphere and that
:caused the warming. This would highlight that the large CO2 atmosphere of
:Mars didn't cause the warming and that water vapor is the larger
:greenhouse gas.
:

Ridiculous thinking.

:
:Mars today is thus like the "frozen earth" theory(2). Basically, this
:theory is that the earth once had such a large ice age that the oceans
:froze and water vapor was lost from the atmosphere. Without the water
:vapor, earth got colder.
:

But nobody really believes this actually happened.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine




.