Re: Europe to Join Russia in Building Next Space Shuttle


Andre Lieven Wrote:
> Rémy MERCIER (Rmy.MERCIER.1u8nlp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) babbles:-
> Andre Lieven Wrote:-
> Rémy MERCIER (Rmy.MERCIER.1u79lm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
>
> Your attributation lines are messed up...--
>
> And, they're still ****ed up...
> --
> Andre Lieven Wrote:-
> John Doe (jdoe@xxxxxxx) writes:-
> Andre Lieven wrote:
> --
> ATV exists. It's not complete yet, and a year from flying roughly,
> but it exists.--
> -
> Until it flies, and flies successfully, I don't count it. Period.
> PR flyers are a dime a dozen. Flown systems are the real thing.-
>
> ATV is more realistic than HTV, Klipper or CEV. They've already
> fitted the station with the gear to let its guidance system dock.
> The first flight ATV has been built. ATV has a lot of conventional
> technologies:
> MPLM shell for cargo module. Russian made docking module. Ariane 5
> for launcher. But there is also a lot of new stuff (guidance,
> propulsion for orbiting tug etc).-
>
> Has it flown ? No. My point.
> -
> It is already late. And likely to see more delays while they debug
> the vehicle. And hopefully the modified Arianne 5 won't blow up when
> it launches ATV.
>
> So yes, you can't bet your life on ATV yet. But it is far from being
> vapourware.-
>
> Ibid.
> -
> HTV on the other hand is a big question mark. ESA has experience with
> Arianne 5. How much experience does Japan have with launchers ?-
>
> Look it up for yourself.
>
> Andre-
>
> The ATV is very near completion. The flight hardware for the first
> ATV
> mission, named Jules Verne, is currently undergoing integration in
> the
> ESTEC Test Centre prior to moving into LEAF for acoustic testing.
> Jules Verne will also undergo testing in the Large Space Simulator.
> http://tinyurl.com/9ozup
> ATV will fly in 2006 (before june). You bet?-
>
> No. My point was, and remains: Unflown gear is unflown gear. Until
> it flies, one cannot claim that it exists as flown and thus proven,
> hardware.
>
> Andre-
>
> Why ESA should send ATV without Colombus in space?-
>
> What part of *INternational* Space Station are you too *stupid* to
> grasp ? Idiot.
> -
> Between EU and USA, how many co-operation projet fell throw? Here,
> you
> have a good explanation for the recent ATV gap (3 years) and ESA
> slowless. But ATV will fly in 2006 to buy ISS' shares and other
> reasons.-
>
> I'll believe it, when it does. Not a second before. If you wnat to
> know
> why... think " Hermes "...
> -
> If there is a "shame"... think only USA or NASA not ESA!-
>
> Yeah, lets examine ESA's manned spaceflight program: Hitch a ride with
> someone... else.
> -
> So many
> times... again and again... always the same...: USA or NASA are not
> reliable... (disrespect).-
>
> Really ? Who else has taken your Euroweenie guys up and brought them
> back ?
>
> Gods, you're a real idiot.
>
> PLONK.
>
> Andre
>
> --
> " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
> The Man Prayer, Red Green.

You missed the point.
Morally speaking, when you co-operate with someone you can't decide
freely to broke your commitments.
Question: in the last 20 years, how many times the USA (or NASA)
decided to broke their commitments with unilateral reasons AND without
compensations?
Ten, twenty or 30 times?
This is the reason why I say that USA or NASA are not reliable
(disrespect) and I think that (morally speaking) it is more healthy to
work with Russia or Japan and more serious and more profitable and
advantageous and beneficial.
You missed another point, clever and polite guy:
Think about this huge discomfort: USA spent so many $ for building ISS
and now, without help (ESA and FSA), ISS can't survive!!!...
Think about this over point, very clever and polite guy:
do you seek a way to pressure the USA?
ESA can choose to do nothing (ISS). In this case, even Russia (new
friend) can take advantage of the situation...
But, technically speaking, very clever and polite guy, ATV can do the
job: our fondations were the russian expertise.
Rémy


--
Rémy MERCIER
.

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