Re: Water Fuel Rocket Science


tomcat wrote:


It is in the interest of hydrogen/oxygen manufactuers to produce their
products at the least cost. This may explain the use of electrolysis
that takes many hours to accomplish. Rockets, on the other hand, are
expensive to begin with and performance is all that really matters.

Rockets function by Newton's Third Law. Using H2+O2 as fuel causes
combustion which causes expansion. Some of that thrust pushed on the
rocket, and some pushes on itself. The rocket being big and heavier
moves just a little, but the gases being light and thin move a lot.

Throwing water balloons operates the same way, as you could find out if
you did it standing up in a canoe. The water balloon is lighter than
you and the canoe, so it gets thrusted farther in one direction than
you do in the other. It's not necessary to burn anything. You just have
to create thrust -- some for you in one direction, some in the opposite
direction for some other mass.

If you could make water 5000 degrees you could get thrust even if it
didn't turn to H2+O2. The kinetic energy of the expansion of the liquid
to vapor at those temperatures would do the job probably better,
because water molecules have more mass than H2 or O2


So, new materials, new concepts (Quantum Mechanics), new purposes, all
blend to produce a new arena for 'possible' advances in cracking the
water molecule instantly in a combustion chamber. That is what I am
discussing here -- not text books that have yet to include possible new
developments.

You haven't really begun to discuss anything "new" yet. "Cracking
water" is endothermic -- it robs heat from the environment. That heat
is stored as potential energy available for a future time, but burning
the H2+O2 only returns what you just had, no more and no less.

This is the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. Energy is neither created nor
destroyed.

I am not dogmatizing. I am inviting assistance in this 'creative'
process, rational assistance not thoughtless remarks.


tomcat

But you are being stubborn. The nice thing about LH2/LOX is you can
take energy over a long time and slowly pack it into the fuel. H2
starts out 80% ortho and 20% para -- it takes five days for the LH2 to
convert itself all into para form, giving off heat as it goes. All that
time and work takes just a few minutes to turn into a Space Shuttle
getting from the launch pad to burnout of the fuel tank.

You are not treating physics as real, and you are not treating time as
real, and you are pretending there is a way to nullify time and physics
in car engine or rocket engines. You are going beyond just that -- you
are claiming it is already true because you see steam coming out of car
exhaut pipes on cold mornings. You haven't yet discovered anything and
you haven't yet invented anything. You haven't proved anything and you
haven't tested anything. There is no "creative" process here yet. There
is simply statements of "facts" by you known by others to have causes
different from what you claim.

That is not the way the creative process works.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Home make launchers
    ... This is where a toilet brush and some warm saopy water came in handy. ... The foot-long plumbing-pipe rocket motor: ... straight up, breathing fire at both ends, finless, and rising rapidly out of my ... After the flaming birch tree incident caused by ...
    (sci.space.history)
  • Re: Question on rocket physics & mechanics [redirected from talk.origins]
    ... > Suppose your rocket thrust was just equal to the acceleration ... but its fuel energy bill would be enormous. ... Consider a rocket of mass, m, and thrust, F, moving ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Heres something to help you sleep before July 4th..
    ... Those that ascend or mount in the Air. ... And such as burn on the Water. ... part, three Inches and a half long, and in Thickness a quarter of an ... If the Bore be two Inches Diameter, the Rocket must be twelve Inches ...
    (rec.pyrotechnics)
  • More about IRW 2007 HPR site.
    ... you come to the approximately square body of water that extending this ... narrower reservoir to the lower right). ... If anyone would like a copy of the OS Pathfinder Map of the FMS ... FMS, this should be used on any rocket going above 4,000 Feet (1,220 ...
    (uk.tech.rocketry)
  • Re: Question on rocket physics & mechanics [redirected from talk.origins]
    ... > vertically in a uniform gravitational field, g. Thrust is ... and the rocket ascends ballistically to ... The energy, E, expended by ... > Thus, for a given apogee, greater thrust yields less fuel ...
    (sci.physics)